Can you get lower action with heavier strings?

Gear
#1

I have been experiencing hand issues a lot over the last few months, so much so that I have been playing only rhythm guitar for the past 4 weeks. The issues lies with my CMC joints on both thumbs - I work as an audio transcriptionist so I’m typing for a lot of my working day. I’m seeing a Rheumatologist next week about my thumbs, hopefully I will get them injected.

As of now, bending strings is out of the question due to pain. Playing single note lead lines can lead to some pain too.

I’m using 9s right now and my action is around 1.75mm. My neck relief is around .008. These numbers have been my standard setup for all my guitars over the years. There is some acoustic buzzing, but no buzzing through the amp.

I’m wondering if I was playing a heavier gauge string, such as 10s or 11s, would it enable me to get lower action without buzzing? I read that heavier strings have less of an arc when vibrating, and therefore less buzzing?

Also, I read that you don’t have to bend heavier gauge strings as much to reach the pitch you want them to go to.

I realise there is a lot of nonsense written online by people who may be spoofing, which is why I came here, in the hopes there is someone who understands physics well enough to perhaps give a definitive answer…

#2

If your goal is to use less force for fretting and/or bending, then you’re better off going down in string gauge not up.

Fretting a string is just a special case of bending, so we can use a previous analysis of the physics of bending to get the answer: Is it just me or it is pretty hard to bend the high E string? - #13 by induction. Result: The force required to bend or fret a string is proportional to the tension of the open string. At the same pitch, a thicker string has more tension, so it will be harder to bend.

I don’t know if the thicker strings are less likely to buzz, but if it’s true, the effect is likely very small. Meaning, the amount you can lower your strings will be small enough that it will almost certainly be outweighed by the increased tension of the thicker strings.

As with so many technical issues, everything depends on how you ask the question. Here are three different ways to interpret that statement, all of which are true, and none of which change the conclusion in your case:

  1. It’s true that thicker strings require less lateral deviation to get the same pitch change (Is it just me or it is pretty hard to bend the high E string? - #20 by ASTN), but the amount of force required is not similarly reduced. So if you use thicker strings, you will bend less distance but use more force to do so, which is the opposite of what you want.

  2. It’s also true that the high E string is often the hardest to bend. This is because the necessary lateral deviation is highest for that string, which means you also have to bend the B and G strings at the same time (Is it just me or it is pretty hard to bend the high E string? - #22 by induction). But this is true no matter what gauge of strings you use, so it doesn’t really apply to your case.

  3. It’s also true that wound strings bend easier then unwound strings, because the wrapping contributes to the weight but not to the tension (no reference here, sorry). I.e. You only have to stretch the core. But that’s not the same as saying a thicker high E string will bend easier than a thinner one. At the same pitch, the thicker string has more tension, and is therefore harder to fret and bend.

Of course, we can just ignore the equations and try it out, right? My personal experience is that thinner strings are easier to play, with the exception of pitch control. Very thin strings have such light tension that they are actually too easy to bend, so they can sound out of tune easily just from fretting tension on jumbo frets, very small lateral deviations, or even hard picking. But they require much less tension to fret.

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#3

I mean, why not just play in D standard? I almost never play in E standard, even for pieces I’m learning anymore I’ll create a downtuned version of the other parts and play along to that. Or if possible, transcribe the piece over a couple frets.

You could even go nuts and do C standard, hella easy bends there once you get used to the reduced tension - although at that point you would want heavy gauge strings probably just for stability. I’m pretty sure 11 gauge strings tuned down to C standard will be way easier to bend and fret than 9 gauges at E standard.

#4

The answer to the title is yes.

" I read that you don’t have to bend heavier gauge strings as much to reach the pitch you want them to go to."

I think the force probably equals out, Iighter strings require more distance to reach a pitch and heavier less distance but the same overall force. The lighter strings will let you use more angles that don’t stress your thumb I think.

You say bending is out of the question though. One thing I’ve wanted for awhile now is a midi pickup, Roy Marchbank is one of those hardcore players that has controversy over his use of the electronic pickup, I believe he’s real in his playing as he does acoustic shredding on his live streams. But it’s not as defined as his electric. And I think that definition comes from the midi pickup. If you can get one, it may help a lot in you not being able to squeeze the fretboard too hard.

Can you play with your thumb off the neck? Kind of hanging onto it rather than pushing?

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#5

Bending force (by pitch, not distance) is proportional to string tension, which increases with string gauge for a given frequency. So heavier strings require more force to bend to a given pitch.

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#6

In a shorter distance.

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#7

Why does that matter?

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#8

Because @aliendough is struggling with the thumb. The more he can move his hand without use of the thumb the better. You can’t squeeze the neck with a painful thumb.
If the tension is to high the neck will move with the bends, if it’s looser you can bend the strings with little force.
That means you can fret the strings and bend with much less force and don’t even need to use the thumb.
If it’s higher tension the thumb needs to do a lot more work to force leverage on the strings.

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#9

We agree lighter strings will be easier to play, which is good enough for me.

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#10

@induction - I’m led to believe that light gauge strings have a wider vibration arch and therefore are more likely to buzz against the frets.

You’re right, thinner strings are easier to bend and to play with…however I’m forced to adopt a rhythm-only approach for a while, likely months. I’m hoping to be able to set up my guitar in a way where I have low action (making it easier to play) and be relatively buzz-free.

@cmcgee11235 I just like playing in E standard. Every I play along with is either in E standard or Eb - and I can use Transcribe! to raise the pitch on the Eb tunes. Once you start dropping the pitch down a whole step with any audio software it just doesn’t sound right IMO.

@WhammyStarScream I have tried playing with my thumb hanging off the back of the neck and it’s ok for single note stuff, although the movement of my fingers with single note lines causes me to feel some pain. Chording seems to be easier as I can just stick with barre chords and my fingers don’t need to change position as much. When I’m playing chords I can pull the guitar towards my body for some leverage, rather than using my thumb as leverage.

#11

From my experience I can use lower action with thicker strings, but I feel like it’s mostly because they slip from my pick earlier than thin strings without getting large momentum (and amplitude). And vice versa whe I tried very thin strings I felt like those were “sticky” if you know what I mean…

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#12

This doesn’t necessarily apply to your situation, but here goes: I have a pretty nasty chronic RSI in my fretting hand (old, bad wrist sprain combined with chronic tendinitis in the forearm) and I find lighter strings to be much easier to deal with. I’ve worked my way back up to 9-46 for standard tuning over the last decade and I find them much more workable (particularly for bends) than 10s.

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#13

are you able to bend strings much?

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#14

Yes. In fact, I think bending is where the biggest benefits lie – it’s what causes things to flare up the most (up there with big stretches) and lighter strings definitely help. I don’t think a super low action helps much, at least not for me: I’ve experimented with it in the past and it seemed to make little difference.

(YMMV on all of this of course!)

Edit: my general attitude on this is “moving your left-hand fingers less and less will help you less than having to apply less pressure to hold or bend a note.” I have a hard time playing acoustic – I actually just gave away my steel-string acoustic because trying to play it wasn’t worth it. But an electric with 9s? I can play until my picking hand gives out now and my left hand is still pretty functional.

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#15

I’d try tuning to Eb. If you need even less tension, try 8–42 strings. I am guessing that low tension will help your hands, and while I am a doctor, I’m not a medical doctor!

#16

Thanks!

I was at a Rheumatologist last night and he performed an ultrasound scan. He said I have fluid around my CMC joint. I wanted him to inject it and he wanted me to wait and see if it settles with complete rest - so no guitar, no Playstation for 2 weeks. :frowning:

I will consider my string options over this period of time, after reading all these posts. I will maybe see if I can get my action down a little more with 9s, and see if it buzzes a lot. As the strings lighten the intonation, when you fret the strings, gets a little wonky.

#17

I’ve found periods of rest time away from guitar acually help with skill, I even found that with graphic design, I think it lets your subconscious process all that work you’ve done. I wouldn’t worry about time off as it will probably help. Hope your thumb gets better man!

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#18

thanks man, appreciate the kind words.