Cmcgee 902 picking motion critique

Technique Critique
#141

@Tom_Gilroy Back on the topic of crosspicking, or really picking arpeggios, something occurred to me when you brought up the notion of feedback in another thread about hand synchronization - and I think I understand the reason I have issues ascending rather than descending these box shape arpeggio patterns.

I typically start on a downstroke. In the fastest video I posted, I realized starting the ascending run on an upstroke brought the speed close to uniform with my starting the descending run on a downstroke, although all the actions are symmetrical. However, they aren’t symmetrical with respect to the amount of force I’m applying, I’m accenting the first note, which in the case of the descending run, pushes back on my arm, prompting it to begin tracking downwards. This is great when descending, but bad feedback when ascending and I think the source of me tripping up.

I had realized that if I emphasize the second note with an accent, it works better, and that makes sense - the second note is an upstroke, pulling my arm to the higher strings just enough to prompt tracking that way. So I think in general, I was subconsciously using that feedback, which is why my ascending direction had more trouble starting on a downstroke.

The only solutions to this I’ve thought of so far is either
A) to first try and consciously line up patterns with that in mind or consciously work in an accented note that will kickstart me in the right spot
or
B) Stock accenting at all and try and track without that feedback marker.

I think B) is a mistake, and working on making A) second nature in a variety of places is the better approach. Wondering if that all makes sense to you and if you’ve experienced or noticed anything similar.

#142

Sounds good dude! I think were at similar speeds its just hard to pull off in the middle of a solo haha

Edit: what exactly does loomis do?

#144

I like the first tab you posted with hitting the 17th fret on the B string. That works well. My pitfall is spending too much time on something that just wont work as well so i dont want to do that. Although, in practice, i still want to try to alternate pick everything just to get stronger with it. BUT, optimal setups still should not be overlooked

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#145

Unisons on different strings gives a saxophone vibe

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#146

I am going to try this too, it just will take a bit longer to get into my muscle memory since I’ve never done it before but it sounds cool for sure

#147

Plays unisons on adjacent strings - here it kind of almost gives it a bluegrassy feel for a second:

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#148

Another 902 exercise - I have a little, very rough playthrough of the Glass Prison arpeggio section I’m working on improving. Some sections of I think approach 150BPM 16th notes so I know the motion is working for it, really just needs polishing and consistency.

I still think biggest thing I’m struggling with is a comfortable attack angle that feels the same on upstroke and downstroke, and consistency of attack angle across strings while tracking. Even with the wrist motion available on command, I have to tool around, as Troy puts it, with the placement of my palm and pick angle pretty often.

I think I forgot how long it took me to really find a comfortable and consistent angle and depth of the pick the first time around learning to alternate pick, which I also had a very different form for more of a trailing edge grip - it takes time and slower practice to get these details into muscle memory and that work can only really take place after you have the wrist motion feeling very familiar.

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#149

Have you experimented with different degrees of pick point? That’s normally how I fix attack discrepancies between strokes.

#150

How do you experiment and maintain good tone/attack?

#151

@carranoj25 as far as tone goes, I feel like the only real “control” you have is where on the string you play (i.e. the closer to the bridge, the brighter) and the pick you use. I tend to let my technique dictate where on the string I play, and just set up my gear around that. I don’t have a playing style in which I need different tone changes (other than switching pickups), and I tend to like where I naturally play on guitar / acoustic / bass.

Attack, for me, I split in two portions in my head. The first is what most sound guys would think of the transient quality. Eric Johnson’s tone got me to read / watch him talk about it, and how he looks for a either a hard or soft quality in the initial transient, dictated almost entirely by his technique (I think he called it “bounce” technique for a while).

I mostly control that by playing softly compared to the loudest possible note I could play, using the same technique. You can experiment with something simple: trem pick a random note at a somewhat slow tempo, while varying the loudness from as soft as you can to as loud as you can. Gradually increase the speed. You’ll find that as you get close to your max, your range of loudness will get smaller and smaller, with your top speed being a very narrow window. Once you get there, take note of how that sounds (you can even record it in your DAW if you want) and scale back the tempo to something slow again. That’s the loudness the you should use when practicing at slower speeds, which in my experience helps translate your technique to faster speeds. You can compare your slower tempo waveforms to your max trem waveform in your DAW to get a literal picture of how it translates. Once you’re comfortable there, being able to control dynamics with accents is the next step.

My long paragraph above more or less explains why I think Anton Oparin is a scary player. The speed / dexterity / cleanliness is there, but he’s able to put out a pretty huge dynamic range in loudness. I don’t think I’ve heard him go to one narrow window of loudness that frequently, which makes me think his true top speed is higher than he’s put on recording.

The second thing I think of attack is mostly tied to the feel of each stroke (haptic feedback). That’s a combination of pick choice and grip (to include degree of pick point). I could detail this more if you want me to keep writing, I’m not sure if this is what you wanted lol.

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Troy Stetina's picking video, what do we think of it under the lense of CtC?
#152

You can control the tone also a lot by the angle of the pick hitting the string, and the grip you use (soft/firm).

The dynamic range Anton has he gets mostely by how much of the pick hits the string; same as Paul Gilbert.
It is logical, because if you let more of the pick down into the strings, doing faster runs, you need more force to get it through as compared to hit the string with just the very tip of the pick.

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#153

Hell yeah brotha keep on writing! I will go grab a beer!

#154

Understood. I think Gilbert is a trailing edge player right? At least recent videos it seems like his pick is almost perpendicular to the strings. When i do that, its much harder for me
To get a nice tone. It also doesnt look like AO does that

#155

Yes , Gilbert normaly is a trailing edge player like Anton.
They have a pretty similar grip and angle. But, he is indeed experimenting with different angles and grip lately.

#156

I might not be up to speed (again) with CTC terminology, but aren’t both of them leading edge?

#157

Yeah they are both leading edge. Trailing edge are a rare breed. Shawn Lane, Neal Schon. Oh yeah I saw a video of some dude on here tearing it up on the bass using trailing edge :wink:

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#158

@joebegly and George Benson!

Lol I was messing around with trailing edge on guitar again, I might record something for fun later and see what’s up.

#159

Yeah how could I forget Benson, thanks!

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#160

Oops, I meant leading edge, my bad. Lately is experimenting with three finger grip.

#161

My first fastest picking motion that I squared together for live gigs was trailing edge. I could probably get it back to form. The Leading edge like Pg and AO is a little rough for me. Usually neutral is where i like it most but i will experiment more with leading edge

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