Crippling issues holding a pick?

My biggest achilles’ heel (and I have a lot of them) is just being able to hold a pick in my hand and go on my marry way. :confused: A major part of that problem is something going on between my thumb and palm where it’s circled below. When I first pick up the guitar in the morning my mechanics are ok, but I slowly start physically having almost like a disconnect/dislocated feeling in the circled area and it causes me to feel like I never have a stable hold on to the pick. It also starts hurting which doesn’t help either. It’s really just all over the place so it makes it difficult to ever get anywhere. I kind of feel like a stock car racer trying to drive 180 mph with one finger on the steering wheel. It’s extremely frustrating because I don’t think 99.9% of you guys have this problem. I’m wondering if I have some physical issue that’s causing this? I’ve played the guitar 25-30 years and have always been envious of players that can just hold a pick in their hand and forget about it. Sounds so simple yet the struggle is real. Maybe I was meant to be a finger like a Jeff Beck. :unamused:

Do you use heavy picks? At times I also have issues with pick slip, and they got mitigated when I started using more bendy picks (0.88s and 0.73s are among my favourites). Sometimes I also put M-tape on the picks to make them more grippy.

Sorry to hear this. I have no clue what’s going on there. How hard are you griping the pick? Is there any difference if you use the middle finger or the three finger method instead of index? Is it the same amount of pain regardless of what type of playing you do, chords vs lead for instance?

I’ve used every kind of pick imaginable hoping that it will fix the problem but it never really does. Currently I’m using the Dava one top right but that can change tomorrow. :confused: it’s really hard to tell if I’m holding it too hard or soft?? I don’t know?? It doesn’t feel like I am but maybe so. I have big hands so started to wonder if the smaller ones like Jazz III’s were causing these issues but the disconnect with the thumb and palm joint starts happening. I’ve tried thinner picks before And they did seem to help a tad but got away from using them because every fast alternate picker uses heavier gage picks. I’m not a doctor so maybe I’m discriping it wrong, but it’s like the ligament, muscle and bone starts separating causing the pain and unstable feeling. Sadly I think until this is corrected it doesn’t matter how many hours I practice I’m never going to get it down. :slightly_frowning_face:

Just for lead playing or when I’m doing anything technical.

It’s not really a issue with pick slip. It’s a issue with it being stable in my hand, and my thumb and palm below my thumb hurting.

Is there any way for you to do a video so we can see what’s going on when you play? Maybe someone can spot something that might cause the problem.

I can but not sure if you’d be able to see anything. I’d like to add that because of this issue it causes me to wiggle around the thumb and index finger where I hold the pick. I think I naturally started doing it to help with the discomfort.

This is a more in detail of where I’m having issues. It’s hard to describe but it feels like it’s being pulled apart, or dislocating between the thumb and palm

Sounds to me like a possible nerve related problem in the neck, shoulder, or arm. I suggest seeing a physiotherapist if at all possible!

I have a similar issue where the thumb side of the hand will start hurting/tingling after playing for a while, but also in other situations such as sitting in front of the computer for too long. I also experience numbness in parts of the thumb and hand at times. My physiotherapist tells me it’s to do with a pinched nerve in the neck (the median nerve). I have been prescribed a number of exercises to help correct the postural problem that most likely is the cause of the issue and it has gotten much better!

(Unrelated nitpick: in the first picture you have circled the metacarpophalangeal joint, and in the second picture (the x-ray) the carpometacarpal joint is circled. Is this correct?)

1 Like

Thanks! I’ll look into it. I would say the X Ray picture is a more accurate location of where it feels like it’s a issue. It’s at the very bottom of the thumb , and at the beginning of the palm.

I would totally see a medical professional about this. Because of my need to know details about everything, I tend to imagine doctors like expert technicians on a NASCAR or F1 team. If I think something is wrong, I want people in lab coats running tests to tell me exactly what it is. In actual practice of course it often boils down to, “we don’t really know but you’re probably fine”. But I still like hearing it!

1 Like

I’m going to try and make a few adjustments and prey that will solve the problem. Maybe I’m just playing beyond my abilities and it’s causing stress on my picking hand, or it’s something minor like my positioning of the hand. Im basically self taught for the last 25-30 years so have developed horrible habits that I’m really struggling to fix. It’s not going well unfortunately. :confused:

How do you know you have “horrible habits”? I am also self-taught and I really couldn’t tell you aside from the stuff we specifically study which aspects of my technique would be considered “correct” or not. Half the time the common wisdom from years past turned out to be misguided or incomplete anyway, so I mostly don’t trust what people tell me about technique unless we can film it or test it somehow.

More specifically, the picture you posted above looks exactly like one of the ways I hold a pick, which we’ve been calling “angle pad”. It really shouldn’t be painful. If you feel discomfort with that soon after playing, I would be as cautious as possilble and check with someone who looks at hands / joints all day.

1 Like

Thanks Troy. I think I have horrible habits because I don’t seem to be progressing 1% along the way. A good example of that is me buying your Eric Johnson cascade course. I purchased it over two years ago and I’m still completely stumped With doing the basic fundamentals of fives in the 12 position. I just fall apart with nothing being able to sync up. My window of opportunity for “good practice” is very short before my thumb starts hurting and the pick starts wiggling around to try and alleviate the pain :confused: because of this the pick feels like it’s in no mans land with all hell about to break lose at any minute. I’m trying the playing very slow with a metronome thing and working up the speed, and sadly it still seems to be a issue. Anyway sorry about going on about this but hoping there’s some hint as to why it’s happening before I go to some doctor. If it helps you this is basically how I position my hand when I play. I’ve always wondered that maybe I lift my picking hand side palm up to high and that was what’s causing the pain, but it always feels very weird putting it lower. :thinking:

This doesn’t work. It’s not how you learned to throw a ball, run, or do any other physical activity, and it won’t be how you learn to make natural, smooth, fast guitar movements. The best kind of technique practice is actually much more fun, more along the lines again of how you learned other skills - by going for it at normal / natural speed and shaping it up as it clicks.

I guarantee you whatever it is you are trying to learn is way closer than you think and would shape up quickly with a good teacher.

But…

…I think you should address this first. I would seriously consider not doing any more playing until you get a chance to check in with an expert and figure out whether this is just minor strain or something potentially more serious. We’d like you to be functional and happy for the long haul!

“This doesn’t work. It’s not how you learned to throw a ball, run, or do any other physical activity, and it won’t be how you learn to make natural, smooth, fast guitar movements. The best kind of technique practice is actually much more fun, more along the lines again of how you learned other skills - by going for it at normal / natural speed and shaping it up as it clicks.”

Ugh! What you described above is EXACTLY how I’ve practiced my whole guitar playing life. :confused: The problem that I have with it is it’s not consistent at all. If I loop let’s say a pentatonic EJ style passage at 180BPM I’ll have it one go around and not the next. It seems like the more I play it the sloppier it gets, but fatigue of my palm and thumb are a big part of it. Slowing it down or cleaning up little things doesn’t seem to fix anything either. The only way I’m ever able to pull off fast passages is looping it over and over. That’s fine, but if I set my guitar down for 5 minutes and go back and try and play it again it’s like I’ve never practiced it once in my life. I’m starting to look and sound like a headcase with this stuff and feel like the Charles Barkley of golf swings when it comes to alternate picking. Haha :joy: If you’re ever in Vegas Troy look me up because I could definitely use you as a teacher. :+1:

To clarify, practicing fast in the beginning is just one part of this. You still need the knowledge of exactly what motion you are trying to perform, what the contact points on the instrument are, which joints are supposed to move, what it’s supposed to look and feel like when done correctly, and which types of phrases will work with this motion. In other words, you need to be able to make an attempt to perform the motion that is close enough that you can recognize immediately and without ambiguity when you are doing it right. And then… you put the guitar down, come back later, and attempt to recreate the correct motion. That’s the process in a nutshell. It’s not totally random, and there is a minimum bar of all those pieces of knowledge that need to be in place or you won’t know when you’re doing it right.

But again, in your case, I wouldn’t do any of that. Pain should never be a part of musical practice, and I would get that sorted first, beginning with a break until it goes away.

1 Like

That’s great advice Troy! I think I may have stumbled on why my thumb and palm start hurting and it was for the simple fact that I was holding on to the pick to hard. :flushed: I never thought I was, but made a conscience effort to hold it lighter and the pain subsides on top of the tone becoming better. Since alternate picking is so aggressive and punchy sounding I think I naturally always just tensed up and dug in to the strings to hard. I just feel like it’s going to fall out of my hand since it’s being held so soft. Thank you for all your great input.