Critique on my alternate picking motion

Technique Critique
#1

Hi,

I have been having some issues with my alternate picking generally on scales that descend from the High E to the Low E string and are two note per string scales. Though this problem doesn’t seem to happen when I am ascending on scales from the Low E to the high E for some reason? The problem is I tend to get bogged down, as in the pick starts to sort of grab the string sometimes on ascending scales when I really crank up the BPM. Trying to describe my issue in more detail, the pick sort of gets caught somehow and has a really heavy friction feel to it when picking through the string. I also tend to use downward pick-slanting when playing these two note per string pentatonic scales, though I also use two-way pick-slanting when alternate picking arpeggios. Any feedback on the problem I am having will be much appreciated as I have tried to solve this problem for a while now and to no avail.

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#2

Can you be little more specific ? like …

Do you start the sequence with upstroke or a downstroke ? In other words : what’s the string change, descending outside or descending inside ?

Does the ‘friction’ occurs at specific stroke (like e.g. the upstroke prior to changing string descending) ? or more randomly ?

Do you put a lot of edge picking ?

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#3

Hi,

I start the sequence on a down-stroke typically on most scales that I play and I have the pick at a 45 degree angle to the string, so all edge picking. The problem tends to happen once I get around the G string when descending on the two-note per string pentatonic scale run. So I am basically having trouble changing strings at a high speed on an upstroke when descending on two note per string scales starting at the high E string and going to the Low E string. But the friction seems to be occurring on the upstroke when changing strings, like the pick has a very coarse feeling when it passes through the string.

#4

Not sure it’s the very issue you have but you might check your grip and how the pick angle behaves for that run. It’s possible that you hit the upstroke at an inconsistent angle and/or that the pick orientation shifts as you pick across the strings, and gives an angle which is sharper for upstroke then it is for downstroke.

On a general note, there could be a tendancy to adjust the edge picking for primary pickslant direction, that is for downstroke if you are DWPS. If the pick tilts during a run (due to an excessively relaxed grip and/or string pressure) the pick can move onward or forward and this might affect the attack angle if you start with a lot of edge picking. If you are DWPS that angle may shift in a way that it becomes too sharp for upstroke, especially in a descending run when the string tension goes stronger.

Not saying this is the issue you have, but maybe it’s worth investigating that. I know for myself that I tend to have this very issue but with economy picking, when successive stroke of same direction slightly moves the pick.

#5

Without seeing a video, I’d guess that it’s a string tracking issue. I’d bet that you feel more friction due to not properly retracting your arm as you descend thus changing your edge picking angle. It’s becoming flatter as you descend.

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#6

Hey thanks for posting! If you’re able to share a video, I think that will help in getting you the most specific and helpful feedback possible. Some good comments here but I think hard to know for sure without seeing what’s actually happening.

#7

Hi Gtrjunior,

This problem I am having doesn’t happen all the time and seems to correct itself when I have been playing for about 20 minutes. I think I would struggle to film it as it is not something that happens every time I play the guitar. Just dwelling on your advice though I think you might be right though about the pick angle becoming successively flatter when I am descending when playing scales. Just taking a deeper look at my picking motion when this happens I think my thumb is extending out and becoming straight and rigid causing the pick angle to change and also adding tension/friction when the pick is passing through the string. My thumb is basically slightly bent when I start the scale run at the High E string and becomes more rigid and straight when I get to around the G string so I think I might need to relax my thumb?

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#8

Hi,

Thanks for your advice on this problem I have been having, really appreciate it. I think the problem I am having is originating from a tension issue I am having in my hand somewhere, I think it may be to do with my thumb becoming too rigid and straight around the G-string when descending on two note per string scale runs. I start the scale with my thumb fairly bent to slightly bent which I control the pick angle with, so I think what is happening is when I am playing fast the thumb is extending and becoming straighter around the G-string and changing the angle of the pick to become flatter.

#9

Since you seem to be aware of what may be happening, you may want to just be super conscious of what your thumb is doing as you descend. Maybe try to to replicate the good motion from the high E and B string and concentrate on keeping the same hand position/motion as you track lower?

#10

Hi wondering if there is any vids on the thumb bump the macanics behind it? Thanks

#11

In my playing thumb bend only controls edge picking - along with approach angle of course.

In general, when you have questions like this, posting a video is really the only way to answer it. Otherwise we’re all just guessing which maybe is helpful, maybe isn’t. Go ahead, unleash the pixels!

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#12

Hi Gtrjunior,

I am not exactly 100% sure what is happening when this fault occurs but just gathering information from other peoples advice on this issue I am really just taking a stab in the dark as I still haven’t been able to resolve the fault. I have pretty much tried everything such as the path that the pick travels over all six strings, the pick angle on the down and upstroke, the motion of the pick whether being two-way pick slanting or on-way pick slanting and my pick grip etc. I am beginning to think it may be a mental block or my tempo is off since I have tried everything else in relation to the motion mechanics for alternate picking. I have no problems at all alternate picking at speed between two strings and just doing a fast tremolo on one string but as soon as i move onto the third or forth string that is when the problem sometimes occurs. It almost feels like there is excess motion as in the pick is bouncing off the strings though I am not using the string hoping technique. Though when this problem does happen it happens when I am working on my speed so I am basically playing at my maximum speed or going over that limit. I will try and upload a video of the problem i am having.

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#13

Hi Troy,

I will try and get a video up of the problem I am having, that will probably be the best way to go for this. I don’t have a phone jig though to position the phone on the guitar so that is why I haven’t put a video up yet.

#14

Some of us strategically lean the phone on something to get a down the neck angle.

Typically what I do is just record myself playing a particular example many times in a row. Maybe for a minute straight or so. Then when I upload to YouTube I edit it down to the section that best represents what my issue is. Don’t worry about recording perfect takes. The mistakes and trouble spots are what we need to see.

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#15

Hi,

I have made a quick clip of my alternate picking of the two-note per string scale I have been using. If you can see anything wrong with my picking or anyone else can, please feel free to point them out to me. Excuse the watermark as well that pops up on the video. Here is the link to the clip -

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#16

Thanks for posting! Two issues: picking motion and hand synchronization.

I’m not getting a clear sense from this clip which picking motion you are trying to use. It appears to change, or at least move around in unexpected ways, and that tells me that it may not be completely smooth. It might help to take another look at what motions are available, demo them all, and make sure there is at least one movement you can make smoothly and consistently, at a wide range of speeds, on a single string to start with. Here’s our best intro to that:

https://troygrady.com/channels/talking-the-code/introduction-to-picking-motion/

Most 2nps players are wrist or wrist with a little forearm. I think of both as mainly wrist. Andy Wood is a great example of a wrist player with a very simple picking motion that works well for 2nps lines and is relatively easy to learn. It’s an upward pickslanting movement, so he starts those phrases on an upstroke:

https://troygrady.com/interviews/andy-wood-workshop/electric-clips/pentatonic-upstroke-tk1/

The movement Andy is using here is the “Two O’Clock” movement we discuss in our recent crosspicking lesson:

https://troygrady.com/channels/talking-the-code/crosspicking-with-the-wrist/

I have no problem with the blended movements that players use when they mix and match little bits of arm, wrist, forearm, fingers, and so on, in a way they’re not totally conscious of. But only if it works. If it doesn’t, then I recommend choosing one of the simpler movements without multiple ingredients and seeing if you can get that to happen smoothly and consistently without unpredictable changes at different speeds.

The second thing that is missing here is hand synchronization. The picking hand and fretting hand are not really locked up tightly. That’s usually something I address again on a single string, with repeating phrases in a single position. Here’s one take on that:

https://troygrady.com/primer/downward-pickslanting/yngwie-malmsteen/chapter-2-building-speed-with-the-six-note-pattern/

Nice magnet-style angle in your filming there. Try to keep the picking hand out of direct sunlight otherwise it gets so bright that everything else in the shot goes pitch black to compensate. A window that gets only reflected light will light up the whole frame much more evenly. And I’d also rotate the camera 90 degrees so you can see your arm and hand together. Those two quick changes will give you a much better idea what’s going on in the shot.

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#17

Hi Troy,

Thanks for that information that you have listed to help me out, I will take your tips on board and try and work on those things. I actually discovered from the first video that I took of my picking hand that around the G-string transitioning over to the D-string when alternate picking two notes per string that the pick was actually doing a sort of bouncing upward trajectory and completely clearing the trench between the G and the B string when descending on the scale. This bouncing/ curved sort of of path that the pick was travelling above and between the two strings was killing my speed and also creating that tension and coarse sort of feeling that the pick was having on the string when coming back down and picking the note on the down-stoke. I will have to put up another video though so you can get a better idea of what I am doing as after more carefully examining the video that I attached that I am actually missing picking some notes at the end of the scale. I actually also discovered that by using directional picking/economy picking that it helps you develop the correct path that the pick should travel when changing on an upstroke to the next string in a descending scale for alternate picking but with obvious differences at the end motion that the pick takes on its travelled path. Though in directional picking you could either sweep two notes on an upstroke or down-stroke depending on if you started the scale being played with either an up-stroke of down-stroke.

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