DBX for comment

The A section of Billy in the Low Ground… I’m trying to use some rotation, and more of a trigger grip on the pick. First 15 sec are spent trying to get oriented, then I rotate my wrist to get the feel of that, then I have a pretty good run at the A section. then things start to fall apart. I have a really hard time maintaining the trigger grip, and as my index finger starts to creep toward the point of the pick you’ll hear some bright tones where my index fingernail hits a string.

Anyway, any comments are much appreciated.

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Hey @jllewi! A lot of variables at play here!

First off, I would say that this step is probably not necessary. I don’t think we ever see this when looking at players with consolidated technique. What you usually see is that they pick up their guitar and just start playing their favourite warmup licks/riffs. Maybe they are a bit ropey at first but after a couple of minutes playing they find their sweet spot and stay there.

Another thing that jumps at me is that your form looks like a typical Gipsy-Jazz setup. So I think that this is probably optimized for a USX-only style of playing (great for many things, but probably not the bluegrass tune you are attempting), and a relevant primer chapter to look at could be this one:

If your current interest lies more in the bluegrass realm, with a lot of DBX riffs and phrases, then I think it’s worth exploring more “neutral” hand positions. The suggestion would be to study the wrist section of the primer, and to try and imitate some of the most common hand positions and picking motions illustrated there:

You mean neutral in the supination-pronation axis, or the USX-DSX axis (or maybe those two are the same)?

This one! I.e. for this kind of DBX playing you ideally want to find a position where USX and DSX are both easily accessible, and also feel similar.

So, something from this spectrum:

Yes! And check out the wrist motion tutorials below that as well. Troy goes over various possible hand setups in great depth!

Here’s a new clip of the second half of Beaumont Rag, with a picking motion inspired by the Andy Wood mostly-wrist clips. Still rough, will take lots more repitition.

Can you try getting rid of the pickslant and doing that again? i.e. pick perpendicular to the strings, or thereabouts

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I second this! And more generally, the whole setup with the flexed wrist + supinated arm (classical/gipsy jazz style), combined with the pick grip, still looks biased towards upstroke string changes.

One possibility is to move your palm closer to the bridge and do a bit less supination while keeping the pick grip the same - that would get you closer to the Andy Wood setup:

Another possibility is to use the three-finger grip like Albert Lee; this allows for the pick to remain approx. perpendicular to the strings despite the more pronounced arm supination

Ok, just know that this is changing everything about how I’ve held and moved the pick for 45 years.
Here’s another try. At about the 8 sec mark I realize I’m still supinated too much and reset for the crosspicking.

That sounds better to me already, how does it feel?

What happens if you try and go twice as fast? Try some different roll patterns as well, I find the Beaumont one to be an absolute killer for some reason.

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The feel in my hand is really weird. I feel like I’m trying to do USX, even though the video doesn’[t look that way.

The feel in the pick is much better. The resistance to the string is much more even regardless of up/down or where I’m switching strings to.

Grip pics

First one is the pad-side grip I have/had used for many years.
Second is my initial trigger grip that leads to a DWPS
Third is the latest iteration where I rotate the pick slightly around my index finger to try and make the pick more perpendicular.

Here’s the latest technique on The Big Sciota.