DBX playing technique

Technique Critique
#1

Here’s a link to my dbx technique. I’m attempting to play as fast as I can without worrying about which string I hit, but making good contact with the strings. As you can see, it’s not that fast.

Here’s another of my tremolo on a single string.

And here’s one more of a pattern that uses some double escapes.

I’ve watched the CTC pick primer videos on dbx and am attempting to copy them.

It feels a bit too slow. I looked at my technique in slow motion, and it seems like I’m string hopping a bit on the downstroke. So maybe I need my upward angle of attack on my downstroke to be shallower?

I also noticed that as I transition from my downstroke to my upstroke, I drop the pick closer to the guitar, changing the angle of attack. That seems incorrect, because the upstroke should simply be the reverse of the downstroke, right?

Any other feedback is appreciated.

#3

Hi, I just edited the topic to include a video of tremolo on a single string, and then another of a picking pattern (rather than the random movements of the first video). Thanks!

#4

OT: If you put each youtube link on its own line with an empty line before and after, it will embed nicely into your post!

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#5

Looking at your first video, I think I see your wrist extending on both up- and downstrokes. This would imply a non efficient motion, ie stringhopping. The real test is speed, however. You need to play a lot faster than that to tell whether its good or bad! Can you speed up your current motion? If so, it’s all good. If not, keep experimenting!

BTW, there’s no tremolo video, the two later videos are identical.

@dcarroll2891 I’m not sure looking at a single string tremolo will be helpful when it comes to diagnosing DBX. We’ve seen several examples of the motion not really double escaping when it’s not needed, eg when staying on one string. A roll type pattern is usually preferred.

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#6

Just saw the post was focused on DBX not DSX (I was confused). Thanks for clarifying.

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#7

@Johannes thanks for the feedback. Do you have any thoughts on the 3rd video (picking pattern with dbx)?

What real life wrist motion does a good dbx motion feel like? The fastest wrist motion I can do is knocking on a door.

In CTC, Troy mentions that the downward stroke is wrist extension + ulnar deviation, then the upward stroke is the reverse, which is wrist flexion + radial deviation. So coupled with your comment, it seems like the problem is that I’m extending on the upstroke when I should be flexing. It also seems like I need to make the overall motion more deviation and less flexion/extension. Am I understanding right?

What does your pick slant angle look like throughout this process? I’m confused by Troy’s guidance that the pick should be perpendicular to the strings throughout the process. How do you do that without extension on both the upstroke and the downstroke? In his analysis of Andy Wood, he mentions that Andy has a downward pick slant at rest, so that he’s able to escape the strings on the upstroke through flexion.

#8

This was done by a forum member; sorry but I saved the link and don’t know the author:
http://garspout.com/pickbot/

It really helped me to understand the movement better. Click the “supinated crosspicking” button and click and drag to see all angles. Then click “string hopping” and see the difference.

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#9

I think it’s hard to tell whether you motion is efficient or inefficient for the same reason as with the first video, the tempo is too slow! At that speed most motions will work well.

I don’t know!

I haven’t watched the DBX material in a while, but I believe there is a misunderstanding here. For a lightly supinated DBX motion (eg Andy Wood), the downstroke is wrist deviation + extension. For the upstroke, only deviation is needed, because of the slight supination. (Of course, you might call the return to neutral “flexion”, but that would be overly complicated…) For pronated DBX (eg David Grier), it’s the other way around.

I think you’re confusing slant with motion. You can have a supinated setup with a motion that escapes on the upstrokes without having any slant to your pick, and vice versa. In the case of DBX, I think a neutral (no) slant works best.

#10

Thanks for the detailed response. This is helpful. Also thank you @stormymondays for that link.

A supinated setup implies a downward slant to the pick though. You’re saying supinated with no slant?

#11

I’m sorry for the delayed response!

Yes, I think so. Slight supination with a more or less neutral slant. At least neutral enough that you don’t get stuck on the upstrokes. Holding the pick loosely may help, too, as will edge picking.

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#12

Hey @gabriel_lemon in your original posted video ‘picking pattern with dbx’ is that an excerpt from a popular song? I swear it’s tickling some memory in my head but I can’t figure out from where I might’ve heard it before.

#13

One thing I’ll point out, is that in the double escape examples you posted, the only contact point your picking arm has with the guitar body is at the edge of the body.

When we observe elite double-escape pickers like Andy Wood, Molly Tuttle, David Grier, Carl Miner, Martin Miller, it appears that most (all?) of them have some kind of contact point somewhere closer to the bridge. Carl Miner’s is the closest to what we see in your video, but even he has a finger from his picking hand in contact with the guitar body. Wood, Tuttle, Grier and Miller all do double-escaped picking with some kind of contact between the wrist or heel of the hand with either with the bridge, the strings, or the guitar body near the bridge. Note also that there is more than one way that contact can work, depending on whether you are using a more “supinated” approach (e.g. Andy Wood), or a more “prontated” approach (Molly Tuttle).

In fact, in your tremolo clip, you do use your wrist (or part of the heel of your hand) as a contact point.

If you haven’t already, be sure to check out these videos:

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#14

Looks like it was @vnjksnv . That’s really cool! I’ll likely use that with my students!

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#15

Whoever did this, it’s great work!
It really helps understand the basic movements in detail.
I am missing one point though, which is forearm rotation as ‘movement’, not as a static offset of the forearm.
I’ve spotted this because I was trying to reproduce one of my supinated movements, which indeed contains a little rotation on the upstroke.
Again, this pickbot is just a wonderful piece of art!

#16

Thanks, this is so helpful. I will watch these videos. The anchor point might be the missing piece here because my tremolo speed feels good and uses anchoring.

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#17

Good ear. It’s a sped up section from What It’s Like by Everlast :slight_smile:

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#18

THANK YOU!

Damn, that has been bugging me for days. It sounded very 2000s era radio play.

Well done

#19

@stormymondays @JakeEstner @MikeAnblips

Glad you like pickbot! If you have any feature requests, let me know.

1 Like
#20

This is a really cool contribution, @vnjksnv!
I’m not sure whether to ask about this feature - I still have to understand the movement better - but at least in my playing I do see the ulna radius plane rotate a slight bit.
This component of the movement is not present in your bot :smile: - And to be honest neither is contemplated in the materials I’ve seen so far on ‘escape movements’.
Forearm rotation is treated - as far as I’ve seen - as a separate pick motion ‘EVH tremolo style’.
I’m not sure but this ‘mini-rotation’ I’m observing is a second order component so maybe it’s not worth focusing on it too much.

#21

@MikeAnblips - Pickbot is a pure wrist movement player! Mostly because that’s what I wanted to understand when I wrote it. If enough people are interested in other movements, I could try to add them.

Apologies to @gabriel_lemon for the hijack. Happy to discuss on DM or maybe we could start a pickbot thread.

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