Django Reinhardt: fast triplets on "All of me"

Playing Technique
#1

Hi all.

I’ve been transcribing and playing Django tunes for years. There’s a little triplet phrase from the outro of his 1940 recording “All of Me” which has intrigued me (attached).

I’ve transcribed and played it using the rules of traditional “Gypsy picking” - ie.
“When changing strings (up or down) thou shalt always start with a downstroke (or if moving to a higher string, a rest stroke or downward sweep is OK too ); but never start on an upstroke or use upwards sweeps.”
(Oh yeah, and right handed tapping is definitely not allowed - sorry Eddie !!)

This means that the second bar would involve two “double downs” when moving to lower strings (marked in red on my transcription), which are hard to play at speed.

I believe Django followed the rules of “Gypsy picking” nearly all the time; and I
know he was phenomenally fast with this technique, but even so it’s hard to see how he managed to play this phrase with such speed and yet still maintained such good pick attack and clear articulation.
The only place where the attack sounds weak is on the first note of the second bar: maybe Django does a sneaky pull-off here instead of a downward pick stroke ?

I was wondering if any folks on the forum know or can suggest a better way of playing this phrase which is still true to the 1930s Gypsy technique …maybe Joscho Stephan might know - If you’re reading this Joscho, many thanks for your great lesson on Cracking the Code !..

Thanks in anticipation

Best wishes

AllOfMe_Outro
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#2

As far as I know, the common practice of gypsy players is using all downstrokes on string changes, even on descending 1 note per string lines.

Joscho does it here in the descending arpeggio:

It’s possible Django used a pull-off here, but probably not necessary for him to play the phrase at this tempo.

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#3

I’ve been working on Djangology, and I’ve found that certain sweeps work better with upward pickslant/dsx. Since I don’t care if I’m doing it The Django Way, I would probably use economy picking on something like this. Frank Gambale has some great examples of this technique.

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#4

Thanks both.

I agree with LuckyMojo: the traditional way is to play downstrokes on all descending string changes, even if there’s just 1 note per string. The downstrokes give the extra volume and tone needed for playing this style, particularly playing acoustically in the era before amplification; but double downstrokes are inefficient in terms of pick movement, and if played using traditional Gypsy picking as I’ve transcribed it, this lick would have two double downs.
I can’t see how even a genius like Django could manage to play two double downs at the speed and with the clarity on the recording; therefore I’m wondering if he cheats on this occasion, and uses a sneaky pull off to avoid having to do the first double down like so:

AllOfMe_Outro_v2
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That still leaves the second double down to deal with though. I’m not sure from listening to the recording: I’m hoping one of the CtC transcription Ninjas with better ears than mine can hear the subtle sound of a possible pull off on the recording as indicated…and maybe an upward sweep too…
If Django wasn’t cheating, then even more respect to the guy, and it’s back to the woodshed for me for another 10 years (…sigh…)

When I started learning Gypsy jazz over 10 years ago, every teacher emphasised traditional Gypsy picking technique as being the only way to play. Then after a few years, I began to watch more closely, and discovered that a lot of contemporary players frequently break the rules and start new strings with upstrokes or play upward sweeps: Stochelo Rosenberg being a particular case in point: amazing player but many of his lightning fast runs would be unplayable at that speed if he only used traditional technique.

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#5

There was a discussion on the Camel’s Night Out thread about a very similar phrase, with the same problem. ie descending one-note-per-string arpeggios played by a USX player.

The solution which seemed plausible was this:

Django
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It does mean you have a momentary ‘backwards’ picking moment on the 5th and 6th notes of the phrase, but it seems to work, and you lock straight back into USX picking afterwards.
I wonder if Eric Johnson and Django solved the same problem in the same way.

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#6

@Oboy Many thanks for this - I’d forgotten that there is a third double down in the first bar of this phrase too. Funnily enough I can play the first one pretty much up to speed, but when I hit the two double downs in quick succession in the second bar everything falls apart…

Your suggestion is really economical, makes complete sense, and works for both bars. Django was a great innovator - both in terms of his melodies/harmonies, and also technique - so maybe he did it this way too, and didn’t follow traditional picking on this occasion…

It’s a shame that there is such a limited amount of movie footage of Django playing available; as this would really help to definitively answer questions like this; so much of transcribing Django’s music is based on detective work, understanding the genre and typical technique, and picking up on subtle nuances in the (sometimes poor quality) audio recordings; however for me this is also part of the enjoyment and challenge of Cracking the Django Code! Thanks again: Best wishes.

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#7

It was a solution that came from @nitro1976. I agree, it feels economical, and speed-up-able, even though it breaks from USX for a moment.
Who knows if it’s what he did, as you said. Seems plausible though.

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#8

The intermittent use of a single downstroke on a string by itself is a thing they Gypsies do. As long as it’s one string of it, and not two, they can be stupid fast with this. Here’s Joscho demonstrating:

Joe Stump also does a similar thing where he does a double downstroke right in the middle of a phrase, but on a single string:

How do you do it? Mechanically, it’s similar to the motion Brendon Small uses for repeated downstrokes in metal rhythm parts:

It’s a little bit forearm and a little bit wrist and the motion itself generates a flattened out circle. But try not to think about it that much. When you start to get this repeated downstroke stuff right it feels sort of springy and light, not tensiony and tiring. That’s how Brendon is able to do it for entire sections of a song at a time. The Gypsies are even faster with it because most of the time they’re only doing it once, sandwiched in between motions that are efficient, so this gives them a break. That’s my guess anyway.

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#9

Many thanks for your reply, links and analysis Troy - and also a huge thanks for the CtC lessons and forum. I’m a newbie to CtC but I’m enjoying it immensely and learning loads already; and the detail, content and production quality of your material are all really excellent.

I’m very grateful to everyone on the forum for sharing their insights and expertise. It’s really interesting and educational to see how musicians from different genres approach the same problem. Learning from different genres can lead to some really interesting new ideas, and help me to develop an original playing style.

I’m very comfortable with the “double down” Gypsy picking when playing repeated arpeggios (eg. the classic Django v Yngwie arpeggio example) or at the end of licks to add extra emphasis to the last note;. Having a slightly flexed and relaxed wrist is the key to speed with this technique (I was taught to think of my right hand movement as being like “shaking out a lit match”).

However I struggle when playing repeated double downs across descending strings. It’s obvious that this is not the most ergonomic picking approach for these sort of phrases; but it gives better volume and clarity on an unamplified acoustic guitar than upstrokes or upwards sweeps, which is why I guess it has become the mainstay of traditional Gypsy picking style.

I’ve spent a fair bit of time doing the classic Gypsy picking exercises such as playing 3 or 4 string arpeggios across ascending strings using downward rest strokes, then playing the same arpeggio in reverse using one note per string across the same strings in descending direction using downstrokes all the way.
I seem to have reached my natural speed limit for this particular exercise; but maybe I just need to spend more time on this; and also perhaps pay more attention to my right hand picking so that the movements are as minimal and economical as possible.

It might be heresy to suggest that Django employed the occasional single string upstroke or upward sweep, but he was an amazing innovator (having had to develop an idiosyncratic technique to work around the limitations of his injured left hand); and I suspect he would have been happy to employ any technique to express and communicate the beautiful sounds and phrases that he could hear in his head.

Thanks for the link to the Brendon Small video - I’d not heard of Brandon before and the clip was very interesting. He’s doing repeated downstrokes at a scary speed, and his pick hand seems to bounce off the strings almost effortlessly. I’m not sure if this technique would translate to unamplified acoustic guitar (at least not in my hands…) but it’s certainly something I’ll look into and have a play with.

Thanks again for your advice, and for everything you’ve done with CtC.
Best wishes.

#10

I might be misunderstanding you, so apologies in advance! But what I’m getting at with those examples like the Joscho clip is not the three ascending notes in the arpeggio. Those aren’t really repeated downstrokes — that’s a sweep. Joscho even calls it sweeping. Sweeping isn’t the same motion as the one you’re asking about, because it just pushes through all the strings in a straight line. It has no speed limit and can be done as fast as you can push your hand through the strings.

However there are two moments in that arpeggio that are true consecutive downstrokes. The descending side of the arpeggio after you play the note on the B string, you have to lift out again, and then hit the G string. That’s a true double downstroke because it makes a little circle in the air to avoid hitting the string you just played. The circle motion is inherently inefficient because it does not use the return trip to play a note, it just avoids the string. So you’re cutting your efficiency in half compared to alternate picking where the upstroke would also play a note.

This true double downstroke happens again at the end of the lick, after you do the three-string sweep. You have to lift out again, making the circle motion, to start the lick on a downstroke. That’s the second true double downstroke. This is what Joe Stump does in his arpeggio example. He finishes with a three-string sweep, which is a downstroke, then lifts out, creating the circle motion, and starts the phrase again on a downstroke. This is also the same thing Brendon Small is doing when he plays the rhythm notes - circle lift on each note.

The key here is that for your fastest speed you can only can do this lifting motion once. That’s how the Joscho and Stump arpeggio examples work. You lift once, then you go to the G string and do sweeping, which is efficient. At the end of the sweep, you can do the lift again, but then the lick goes back to alternate picking which is efficient. You never do the lift more than once without doing something efficient in between.

So if you’re trying to do this two or three times in a row, like the Gypsy exercises you’re describing, you’re going to pay a large speed penalty. That’s why the fastest examples of this, again, like Joscho’s arpeggio and Joe Stump’s arpeggio, only use this trick once in between motions that are more efficient.

So to try and get this you want to try and work on those types of examples, where you do the lift only once, surrounding by either alternate picking or sweeping. When you get it, it will feel light and possibly bouncy but not tensiony, because you’re only doing it once and then getting a break.

If this is what you meant, and you already know this, apologies!

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#11

I think the real secret to all downstroke picking is shown here by Andreas Oberg - you need to wear extremely deep V neck shirts :wink:

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#12

Here’s a cool example comparing gypsy picking to Oud technique

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#13

LOL!
Andreas used to be a professional tennis player as well as a Gypsy jazz shredding legend (his “Gypsy Fire” instruction book for Gypsy picking is a classic).
Apparently he’s now a successful record producer.
Some people just have a scary amount of talent and energy :wink:

#14

@LuckyMojo: Many thanks for the link with the oud - interestting: I wasn’t aware that rest strokes were used on the oud too.

One of my favourite contemporary Gypsy jazz players, Olivier Kikteff from Breton/French band “Les Doigts De L’Homme”, often intersperses high octane Steve Vai infused Gypsy jazz arrangements with Middle Eastern world music compositions played on the oud, so this explains the connection !

One of their live performances (minus oud!) here which you might enjoy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1F-cst82ds&t=139s

#15

@Troy: Many thanks for your detailed and clear explanation - I think we’re both on exactly the same page, but I might have confused things by using the wrong nomenclature:

By “descending strings” I meant descending pitch (ie. moving the picking hand progressively upwards from the floor, from the top E string towards the low E string); rather than moving the picking hand across the strings in a descending direction downwards towards the floor (ie moving the pick across the strings (from low E to high E). Sorry for the confusion.

I completely understand the technique that you describe (including the downward direction sweeps and downward rest strokes); and agree that traditional Gypsy technique is inefficient when playing double downward pick strokes, or when playing an odd number of downstrokes on each string when moving the picking hand in an upwards direction across the strings from high E to low E and starting each new string on a downstroke.
That’s why I was hypothesising that Django might have broken with tradition and used a sneaky upstroke to play his lick at such a fast speed :wink:

#16

Makes a lot of sense. Strong backhand stroke = strong downstroke.

#17

Hi all! If I recall correctly, Joscho Stephan offers one other way to think about the double down. He says something like “its about the triplets”, which I took as “a triplet is best played D-U-D”. Now if you play consecutive triplets, this will produce consecutive downstrokes, D-U-D,D-U-D,…
Playing this way gives each triplet a very distinct rhythmic articulation.
I like this explanation, because it offers a musical reason for an arbitrary seeming rule in the otherwise really well structured gypsy-picking system.

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