Do Players use DT for Strumming?

How well can you strum with DT? Or do most players switch to RDT for their strumming technique?

I worked out a DT motion recently which seems to be more consistent for DBX and it has a really effortless powerful attack just because your pick is naturally really flat against the string but this becomes a nuisance when trying to strum as it feels garage spiky.

Anyone have any examples of DT strumming? :slight_smile:

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Willing to be wrong, and thereā€™s clearly some elbow, but I think this has a DT component to it.

I can get fooled easily but the way heā€™s turned so hard on the thumb side reminds me of Shawn Lane, and we know that was a DT motion. Itā€™s definitely different than most people look when they strum, whatever this is.

For me, I always strum with RDT and I think thatā€™s pretty common.

I see what you mean!

I should of specified Iā€™m looking for speedy examples, I want it to be capable of these kinda speeds:

Yeah I think most people do, gonna have to take another look at Molly Tuttle, Jake Eddy and David Grier but my suspicion is that they will switch to RDT :slight_smile:

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I recall the Molly interview she had a clear ā€œmodeā€ for strumming and it reminded me of the Guthrie/Andy wood ā€œawesome strummingā€ weā€™ve seen. Soā€¦RDT.

And sorry I didnā€™t know you wanted ā€œfastā€. Why does everyone around here care about speed so much??? (kidding).

Iā€™d bet, if the Cornell this is indeed DT that it would have plenty of ceiling because we know DT is very fast and capable.

Anyway, I only posted it because when I saw that video years ago I immediately thought it seemed unusual and DT looking. Best of luck on your search!

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RDT is like scribbling back-and-forth with a pencil when oneā€™s pinky side of the hand is on the paper?

I thought that most ā€œfastā€ strumming was forearm rotation as if shaking water off oneā€™s hand? (Funk guitarists?)

In the above video, isnā€™t everybody mostly using their elbow? :thinking:

I think a bit of forearm rotation is essential in fast strumming (just occurred to me that this might be the reason we donā€™t see it with DT) but the main driver of the motion is RDT wrist motion. Troy mentions it here:

Definitely some elbow motion as well to help get that boom chuck rhythm but I think the main driver is still wrist :slight_smile:

Sorry, more questions. Let N be the width of your strumming, where this would be how many strings you want to cover.

For large N the wrist cannot cover that distance in a comfortable way. I think elbow does that very well. Forearm is rotary so it makes arcs, and this would create too much depth (in the middle of the chord), hence the wrist might be trying to operate during forearm rotation to keep the pick flat (and not on an arc).

I have no idea if this is right but I currently believe it :laughing:

Joscho can cover 4 strings almost 5 with mainly wrist and a bit of forearm:

Add in a bit of elbow and then you can get full coverage of the strings :slight_smile:

The elbow by itself can cover the distance of all the strings but why is that not more common for guitar strumming? Itā€™s common among Mandolin players for single note tremolo and double stop tremolo but I feel like the tone would be too scratchy and garage spiky on guitar (itā€™s already a little scratchy on Mando). Would be happy to see some examples to the contrary!

For success all of the joints must be going at the same frequency (cycles per second). Let me also assume the pick has to travel flat (to skim the strings for speed).

Then, does this follow?

  • Elbow is sufficient (and I see it everywhere).
  • Wrist is insufficient because it has limited range.
  • Forearm is insufficient because it isnā€™t flat; it requires wrist to make it flat.

So I postulate that strumming is elbow, or forearm with wrist to get the right pick path (a line).

This could be totally wrong :rofl:

Could you share some examples?

Take the video that @joebegly shared, isnā€™t that elbow?

Oh, wait, do you think it is rotation about the humerus bone in the upper arm?

Sure there is elbow but you can say the same about violinists and Troy has cited them as textbook dart thrower examples. These are compound motions.

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I am only talking about guitar, there are no bows here! :wink: Lots of joints are definitely turningā€•but all at the same frequency. Youā€™re right that it is a compound movement, but the elbow is clearly dominating. I think that wrists are actually necessary in some cases to keep the pick right on top of the string plane, particularly when forearm is used, as forearms make arcs and not lines.

I could be wrong, but to me thatā€™s all forearm and no wrist. To me, his forearm is doing a rotation about its long axis and his wrist is bent at 90 degrees to give him a large lever arm. I can do the rough math for my hands (Iā€™m not sure if heā€™s bigger or smaller than me), but I could probably get 5" away from the string plane and could cover 3" in a mere 33 degrees or soā€¦ and isnā€™t it like EVHā€™s tremolo motion, with the same trick? :thinking:

Yeah but itā€™s too slow to know if the motion is efficient or not. Iā€™m after a motion that has a high speed limit so when I use it at medium to medium-high speeds it will feel nice and fluent.

At 1:00 in that video, Joscho says ā€˜the arm is doing a bit but itā€™s mostly out of the wristā€™. My first motion was wrist-forearm, more forearm-y and when I try to use it for strumming the little arc the pick makes isnā€™t flat enough to be useful for any kind of strumming :slight_smile:

EVHā€™s tremolo motion is pure forearm with no wrist component, would be interesting to see if he ever used it for full chords!

EDIT:

Ah yes, Troy explains exactly what Iā€™m saying here at 3:10:

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Right, this is why I think it is forearm and wrist: the forearm traverses the distance with an arc, and the wrist keeps the pick on the strings, turning an arc into a line. Is that right? I think soā€¦

Look at what he does, not what he says. It is mostly forearm rotation.

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Iā€™m very skeptical of what most players say they do, thatā€™s why Iā€™m going off of what Troy says when ā€˜thereā€™s a little forearm motion yes, but a big component of gypsy technique is also the hand itself moving back and forthā€™ :slight_smile:

So what kind of motion is this? Is this forearm with a flaccid hand? Or is it something else?

Thatā€™s pretty much what he says here:

I have this vague recollection that Troy interviewed him and itā€™s in the backlog of stuff, so perhaps weā€™ll get more concrete details down the road.

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Great! I didnā€™t mention my other question: do you think that he makes his wrist flaccid, too? I am assuming that he does (the whole unit flops around, with just enough tension to hold that pick), but Iā€™m not sure.

Heā€™s pretty fast because he strums 120bpm and always does 16th notes, so he could deliver downstrokes at 240bpm (he does downstrokes on numbers and &, and upstrokes on e and a). And not just that, heā€™s obviously efficient, as he can play a whole show without slowing down or his arm exploding.