Do you think there’s any musical situation where it’s legitimatly called for to play faster than Michael Angelo Batio can play at his fastest (16 nps)? solos at 3:07
Not unless you want to. But I’d say no especially in today’s day and age.
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“But I’d say no especially in today’s day and age.”
I’m intrigued by why you said the above quote. Thanks for replying, BTW. What it is it about today’s day and age that plays a factor? I’d really like to know!
I’d say we dont know musical needs that may occur.
I’m pretty sure lots of music and styles came from techincal approaches - at some point there must have been the first tremolo or the first sweep.
Even if we could reach speeds where many single tones melt to one new tone just by frequency that would be another option in the tone optiones.
I see no reason to set a limit at any point - in best case new capabilities lead to a wider range of styles. Even if there’s a limited amount of persons being able to that physically it might be reproducable digitally and gives us all … well more music 
this was very educational and entertaining, talks about our threshold of HEARING
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Why not? Speed is a texture, and used right it can add tension and dynamism to music. Besides, I’m pretty sure there are guys out there already faster than Batio - Rusty Cooley is about the fastest I’ve ever heard, I think.
I wouldn’t want to do that all the time, but if I could play at those tempos… Sure, I’d do it.
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Right, dude I want to end a show by hitting a 24th fret high E, on endless repeat delay, Then, pick a muted note 50ms so it sounds like a low note… then keep increasing speed until the plectrum frequency matches the High E that is on repeat through the PA… until the pick catches on fire… then I’ll throw the burning pick on the guitar with some lighter fluid… then throw the flaming guitar through a speaker cabinet… and then the whole cab with be on fire until the amp explodes. By that time I’ll be on the tour bus chillin.
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Yeah, I’d buy a ticket for that.
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What’s “musical need”, what’s “legit”?
Just express yourself how you want; if you can’t, practice until you can.
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You’re right, speed adds tension and dynamics t music - a concept many blues based guitarists don’t seem to comprehend. I wonder though, how much, if any, more tension and dynamics playing at 18 or 19 notes per second adds to music than Batio’s 16 notes per second. Hence the question “is there any legit musical need to play faster than MAB”? I don’t think I’ve ever heard a Batio solo and afterwards thought, “if he’d played that a little faster I would have really enjoyed that.” I’ve never even had that thought about Jimmy Page and he’s not nearly a fast as Baitio or Cooley but he had great songs in Led Zep and his playing was just right for the music.
Batio plays to a relatively small audience as it is. Cooley plays to an even smaller audience; he’s not nearly as popular as Batio. Cooley’s greater speed alone has not helped him career-wise. And you could say maybe Batio is just a better songwriter but as far as I know, the general consensus is that Batio is not a particularly good songwriter. I’d bet that the audience he does is largely there because of his speed and not because of his songwriting. I have both Nitro albums - when his career and popularity where at their peak - and in my opinion his songwriting on those albums was nothing special. I saw Nitro on the tour for their second album and I enjoyed it. It was amazing to see someone with that great of a technical command over his instrument!
Batio’s career has benefitted tremendously from endorsing Dean guitars and doing clinics whose function is to sell Dean guitars. You might say Batio is the world’s most famous guitar salesman. I know most of his income comes from the clinics he does to promote Dean guitars. I went to one of those clinics he does although back them he was selling Washburn guitars not Dean. He said he thought Washburn were the best and I’m sure now he says the same about Dean. Aside from that I’d expect the clinics are very similar and they’re entertaining clinics. I enjoyed attending the Washburn clinic and I suggest that anyone who hasn’t been to see one of is clinics should go to one who he’s still doing them. He can do some amazing things on the guitar.
Per the Adam Neely video linked by @JakeEstner: At speeds of 20nps and faster, it becomes difficult for us to hear individual notes as rhythmically distinct, and the “pulses” of uniformly spaced notes at these speeds start to get perceived as merely peaks in a wave whose frequency in Hz correlates to the number of notes per second. 20nps is still a grey area, but Neely demonstrates that a click track sped up beyond 20nps starts to sound less like a series of clicks, and more like a continuous note with a pitch of its own.
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Isn’t it interesting that the fastest we can hear distinctly is roughly the same speed as the fastest speed at which the fastest guys can tremolo pick? It’s as if God designed us so we can’t play faster than we can hear or hear faster than the fastest of us can play. Brilliant! God doesn’t make mistakes!
I think this is true. The first step to playing faster is actually hearing and perceiving the notes, at a high speed, correctly in time. My ear has gotten better at this in the last 10 years, and I’m beginning to speed up a bit. For a long time, fast notes would go over my head as far as really hearing them in their correct timing, so what chance would I have of actually playing that fast?
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Maybe because I am getting old… but I have a really tough time hearing phrases beyond MAB speed. And to me… the biggest ‘wow’ factor is slower than MAB speed… but played super clean.
However, I do think that playing > MAB speed can have some artistic value. This is really subjective… but ascending or descending legato scalar runs can sound really cool at > MAB speeds.
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Sometimes you hear the contours of the line more than the individual notes, or, sometimes the phrasing is made up of the groups of notes rather than the individual notes.
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…but, by the same token, is there any more tension at Batio’s 16 notes per second than, oh, Slash’s 10-12? Have you ever heard a Slash solo and thought, “if that was only a little faster I would have really enjoyed it?” Batio plays to a much smaller audience than Slash, has his greater speed helped him career-wise?
This stuff is totally subjective. There’s no more reason to conclude that Batio is just right, not too fast, not too slow, and Cooley is too fast and it’s just not musically necessary, than there is to assume Slash is just right, not too fast, not too slow, and Batio is the one who’s faster than musically necessary.
All that it really boils down to is if you the listener find it musically compelling. If you do, awesome. If you don’t, awesome. Either way, that’s an entirely subjective assessment. I can’t tell you that you’re wrong to believe that, for you as a listener, there’s no need to play faster than Batio, and it’s not musically necessary. However, by the same token, you can’t tell me that I’m wrong to think Batio’s speed isn’t musically necessary and I’d rather listen to Clapton, or that Cooley’s speed IS musically necessary and adds some really ear-catching tension to his soloing, and I’d love to see someone take that even further.
Funnily enough, Cooley is a Dean artist, as well.
You’ve clearly never met the duck billed platypus.
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Chopin, Liszt, and Paganini would tell you yes, there are legit reasons
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We are only here once, and not for long. This is more of a philosophy question.
I personally have other things to do lol
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MAB? Is anyone faster than Shawn Lane?
When you can’t decipher what someone is playing… that’s the threshold for me…
Totally agree, it’s all about the quality of the notes! Rick Graham is perhaps not the fastest out there (though he’s certainly close!), but what sets him apart from other equally fast players is that every one of his notes comes out clean and beautiful!
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