Out of curiosity have you been through the Pickslanting Primer and/or have you in the past had a CtC membership? Just trying to tease out if you went through that program and stuff went over your head, or if you’d just never had that paid access and have been sort of ‘going it alone’ through bits and pieces you pick up on the forum (and of course all the awesome stuff Troy puts out on YouTube and free vids on his site).
“Mind your own business, Joe!!!” is of course a perfectly acceptable answer I’d just like to see as many people find their success story as possible. I’m still writing my own success story, but at least I know I’ll one day get there lol! It was hopeless before haha! I’m a huge fanboy of both Troy and Tom. I’ve learned tons from both of them.
No reason to assume every great idea on the forum is present in our instructional material! Tom’s ideas here are awesome and probably present in some aspects in our recorded lessons and not at all in others.
More generally lots of our recorded lessons are out of date or simply silent about things that we regularly teach in Technique Critque. This is one of the main reasons we made TC. It takes a lot of work to make a recorded lesson, and it always lags our knowledge, in some cases significantly, until we can get the time to update them. The gap between TC and lessons will lessen over time as the incremental knowledge gets smaller. But right now it’s pretty significant in some areas. If someone is not actually using Technique Critique, and only watching the recorded lessons, they are not getting our best teaching.
Tom I think your checklist is great! The only item I would suggest could possibly be amended is (ironically) the escape requirement. Tremolo is the simplest diagnostic just because it eliminates other sources of complexity that can confound the analysis. And beginners are of course not always capable of much more. However it can be ambiguous on escape.
If someone is doing a single escape motion, they should see an escape even when playing a tremolo. If they don’t, that’s potentially a problem. In the simplest case, USX players should look “USX-y” even when banging on a single note, even at maximum speed. That’s the whole benefit of USX playing styles.
However if someone is using mixed escape form, particularly wrist motion, you won’t always see an escape in Magnet footage when playing on a single string, especially at medium fast speeds or higher, even if the player is capable of clean escape when playing mult-string phrases. There is variation here, where some mixed escape players will revert to single escape motion when on the string, while others will appear trapped. I think it has to do with whether or not the primary joint motion is double escape versus single. Regardless, for mixed escape, it’s really about the form. If that checks out, then you mostly care about motion and effortfulness attributes, as per your [excellent] checklist.
Yep, I’ve been through the pickslanting primer, have been a MIM member and have been thoroughly interested in Troy’s stuff since he started doing the CTC stuff. Paid the bill, bought all kinds of stuff ctc series, volcano, antigravity, etc. But sadly, I am a terrible guitarist and haven’t been able to really get any better despite trying to use my wrist, forearm, elbow, sweep, slant and swipe, use every pickgrip imaginable, and logging more practice hours than anyone I know. It’s laughable really! I am ashamed to say I have a formal music education and quite often am paid to play.
Troy I love your stuff, all of the information is great but I am one of those people who needs things to be explained as if I were a confused and distracted 3 year old! I have watched all of your videos and tried to fathom what the hell I was missing but I couldn’t see it. I’m happy to pay for a membership, but if I don’t understand any of it what’s the point? lol So yeah, most of what you guys talk about (98%) goes WAY over my head.
Not your fault, guys - it’s mine - I think that for some reason when the untalented and physically inept decide they love something and pursue it with relentless fury we tend to do it with an innate stubbornness. Sometimes some small things are overlooked that are tremendously important while things that are not important at all are scrutinized to death lol funny, yes?
(Yes I can play a single string - roughly as fast as a 2 year old hamster whacked out on blueberries on a souped up wheel)
(PS My forearm does NOT wiggle when wrist picking)
I had felt that I had made some really tremendous insights regarding ideas we’ve discussed before, posture and positioning, fretting hand mechanics, optimal fretting sequences, etc. However, I didn’t feel that I was quite sure how to organise those ideas into a coherent framework for presentation and teaching. One of the main reasons I started teaching was to get more experience with that aspect.
We’ve discovered key ideas independently of eachother, but I’ve also learned a lot from your work. I think we have a lot of similarities in our approaches, and your work has definitely inspired me to get my ideas and insights out into the world.
This seems like it will continue to be a problem for some time into the future. I think the shift in approach and terms from your early work, while it was necessary, is a source of confusion. Particularly for new subscribers and people who have returned after a long-ish absence.
I haven’t always been posting regularly, but I’ve been reading and staying up to day with your work since I first joined CTC (in 2016, I think).
I think it’s pretty good too. I have personal preferences for forms which are compatible with hybrid picking and which allow for damping, but I don’t consider those essential.
I realise now that I’ve expressed that criteria poorly. The student needs to demonstrate the capability to consistently escape in at least one direction while performing basic picking rudiments I have designed, which can act as diagnostics. I have a few students who have discovered mixed escape mechanics and can comfortable escape in both directions with one form, and I have other students who have discovered essentially pure USX and DSX mechanics which are not compatible with eachother.
I don’t require that the form consistently escapes on a single string tremolo. I have some issues with tremolo picking on a single string as a starting point. I’ve seen many players who can tremolo pick quickly on a single string but who do so with a form that has a very high background tension, weak connection to their time feel, or poor tracking facility.
The picking rudiments I teach are designed to begin developing all five criteria from the beginning. Whatever form students use to mee those criteria is fine by me, but if they discover multiple forms I would encourage them to stick with whatever approach is giving themthe best results for some time.
Much of the early work I do with students is to get them to lower their background tension. I strongly believe that this lower background tension results in greater sensitivity to haptic perception, based on my reading, my own experience and my work with my students so far.
The problem I have with telling students to do what feels right is that most people just don’t know what “right” feels like. They may not even be sensitive enough recognise “right” when it happens. My first goal is to increase a student’s sensitivity to their haptic experience, and to trust that these tactile and kinaesthetic stimuli will provide much more valuable information than focusing their visual attention intensely on their picking or fretting hand ever can.
It’s not enough to bring the “noise” down, I also want to bring the “signal” up. A large, powerful accent provides a huge spike in haptic perception. It’s like a bright light flashing in a dark room. It helps connect the student’s movement to their internal sense of time. It tests power and dynamic range. It provides a clearly perceptible landmark for chunking. I also believe that it provides a “refresh” for form, preventing form from drifting over time.
Essentially, my process aims to connect our sensitivities of movement and moment. To link our haptic perception with our internal clocks and then to let these senses lead our development.
Again, I’m still working with a relatively small sample size, and I haven’t been doing this for very long. However, the process is working.
@Tom_Gilroy out of curiosity - have you found it useful for you or your students to incorporate playing with eyes closed to increase focus/improve signal to noise ratio?
It’s felt at least subjectively useful to me for noticing inconsistencies in my technique along with some basic Pranayama/breathing exercises to reduce tension and - for me - reduce some anxiety, especially when recording.
It’s hugely helpful. I don’t insist in it, but I do insist that students don’t focus their visual attention on their playing. They shouldn’t be looking intently at their hands.
But then, what do I know. I’ve just received messages on YouTube telling me I “can’t play fast” and that I’m “clogging up the CTC forums” with “pseudo-intellectual” spam.
Thanks for the kind words, but I think it’s time I finally came clean. I’ve been found out, I really am just a “hack” spouting “pseudo-intellectual drivel” in an attempt to “piggyback off of @Troy 's successes”.
No you see, none of that actually counts for anything. Nothing I say can actually be helpful or meaningful feedback, it’s all just an attempt to use complicated jargon I “don’t understand” to “get attention”. That, sweet, sweet attention from a dozen or so guitar nerds on a forum who I’m unlikely to ever meet in real life. Can’t you all understand?! I just couldn’t help myself.
You and my other students can’t attest to my capability or credibility. Nothing you or my other students have seen me do counts because some random forum lurker here hasn’t seen me do it, and I can only continue posting here if I prove myself to him, after all his opinion of me is truth.
Don’t even try to vouch for me guys, everything you’ve seen in lessons was an elaborate fraud using sophisticated deepfake technology. That’s the only possible explanation for what some of you have seen.
I guess it was just too much to hope that people would believe I was honest and well-meaning, that my contributions here have been made as a genuine effort to help people improve and share the findings of twenty years of studying, practicing and analysing guitar technique, or that I have struggle with performance anxiety while playing in some contexts but not in others.
Some folk believe the earth is flat, that 9/11 was an inside job, that the royal family are lizard people, that covid isn’t an illness, moon landing was fake… some people are just idiots.
The comment sections on YouTube, instagram, facebook etc etc are a dumpster fire.
Thanks @Troy. I’m fine with it, it’s just an inevitable consequences of putting myself and my ideas out there. I know plenty of people have tried to throw mud your way too. The sheer level of disrespect towards you is one of the reasons I avoid TGP, by the way.
The only bit that really annoyed me was the accusation that I’ve attempted to piggyback off your work.
I posted here for more than five years without any financial incentive at all. I only started making myself available for teaching because users here kept messaging me, and because it offered me a venue to improve upon my presentation and explanation of concepts after the discussions we had privately.
I’m just a guitar nerd who enjoys nerding out about guitars with other guitar nerds.
The idea that you (or anyone) would have to justify why you do guitar teaching is silly enough on the surface that I really wouldn’t spend another moment worrying about it.
Ditto for what random people say on forums. Gear Page is actually a good example of why this typically doesn’t matter. Any time a critical thread pops up over there about things we teach, it’s really only populated by about 5% detractors and about 85% people saying hey that stuff really helped me, and explaining to the detractors why they (almost always) are just misunderstanding something.
You can only worry about the bigger picture of being on the right side of what you do. When you do that, the balance of opinion will always be net-positive, and you won’t have to micromange or even care about the small number of weirdos.
Echoing what’s been said here @Tom_Gilroy - you know you have plenty of positives in your life and you know what you’re capable of. It’s an unfortunate nature of the beast that there are always detractors and disrespectful people, they usually have something totally unrelated going on or some deep seated insecurity. Putting your material/ideas/performance out there on the internet means losers behind a screen with nothing better to do will sometimes crap on you. You can’t control that, but you can learn to ignore it to one degree or another. Still, that can wear you down over time.
I think there’s also the effect of scale here, once you build an audience that supports you, they tend to drown out the negative weirdos, but it can take time to get there and it can be a real slog at times. I’ll have randos comment on my videos that X was Sloppy or Y is unimpressive, but I’ll get plenty of positive feedback.
I’m someone who is generally able to totally divorce my emotions from my audience if I need to though, healthy or not, I’ve done enough customer support work when I was younger to build up that dissociative mindset. I think it just gets easier with time and exposure.
Aww man, Tom rocks. He’s helping me sort out all kinds of stuff on guitar that I just couldn’t reach on my own. Sometimes we just need a coach to help out a bit - I know I did/do.
10/10 Tom.
(Just checked again, my forearm doesn’t wiggle during wristpicking. I thought it might have, but it was just a trick of the light…)
I’m currently in the process of recreating how I learnt my USX wrist+forearm motion with a DSX wrist motion with great progress so far, I’m hoping to post an update on my thread within the next couple of weeks!
My new motion has no forearm wiggle at all, it’s visually very similar to Andy Wood’s motion where the wrist looks like it is flicking outwards diagonally. I’m not seeing this flicking in your playing, it looks more like deviation. My form looks a little more pronated then what you’re using in your video, which I think also helps get rid of forearm motion.
This makes a lot of sense. I was an (inefficient) USX wrist player for 10 years before I discovered my new working motion. When I try to do a purely USX wrist motion I find it really hard not to have my forearm move (even though it is slight and doesn’t help the motion, I think it’s actually a negative thing). I guess I should count myself lucky that I have a different axis to work from without a motion already baked in that doesn’t work interfering!
My advice would be to not brute force any motion, find a way to do it effortlessly - at speed. Aim for picking smoothness but don’t worry about attack, I think focusing on attack (at least in my case) encourages a less efficient technique when the focus should be on speed/smoothness/effortlessness (my attack when learning has actually been quite weak but once the motion became learned I could just do it more aggressively).
I could go on and on but I’ve already said quite a lot. If I can learn DSX wrist and subsequently learn DSX elbow I’m gonna try and condense everything I did down into a new thread
It’s not your fault. This forum’s approach does use big anatomical, scientifc, and mathematical jargon. Not something most guitar players could relate to.
Naw, totally my fault - I take full responsibility for my understanding or lack thereof. I must say that I’m much further ahead in respect to Troy’s definitions/explanations. Going good!
I just wanted to say thank you - once more - “qwertygitarr” for giving me those few pointers. After 3 years, I have broken the barriers, cracked the code, etc… I use forearm rotatiion with some kind of wrist motion involvement - that’s my technique. I get zero or near-zero tension, precision and speed up to 160 bpm (32nd note “small triplet” groupings) - I can’t play all my sequences at that speed yet (mainly linear ones), but I am getting there. And guess what - for hair metal, I don’t really need to go any faster than that. So, once again - thank you - below is the link with the mentioned results
I’d just like to see as many people find their success story as possible. I’m still writing my own success story, but at least I know I’ll one day get there lol! It was hopeless before haha! I’m a huge fanboy of both Troy and Tom. I’ve learned tons from both of them.
