Double Outside Gilberts / Frequent Pickslanting

Playing Technique
#1

Hi Everyone:

One thing I like about the forum is that it’s helped me to organize many of the common picking scenarios, and to zero in on some maneuvers I find particularly challenging. One such maneuver I’ve posted about is the pedal tone/single note on adjacent string lick. We saw this with Yngwie’s “I am a Viking” intro turnaround run, and maybe even with one of Randy Rhoads’ “Mr. Crowley” solo licks. Although we surmised that these two licks might involve crosspicking or swiping, I’ve become interested in trying to approach some similar licks with 2WPS.

In general, it seems like I’m more comfortable playing 2WPS licks that allow the guitarist to first “fully establish the pick slant” across a few notes before requiring a new pick slant during a string switch. I’m not exactly sure why this is, but subjectively it feels like when I have established the pick slant by playing consecutive notes on the same string, I have built up something like momentum or infrastructure that supports the movement to another pick slant. And then I can sort of “settle into” the new pick slant for a few notes, before changing again. But licks that involve frequently changing the pick slant on consecutive notes on adjacent strings continue to be challenging to me.

There are probably many examples of this type of lick throughout CTC. But one that comes to mind is a lick Troy plays on the Antigravity seminar - it’s called the “Double Outside Gilberts” lick:

https://troygrady.com/seminars/antigravity/clips/double-outside-gilberts/

I’m curious about people’s thoughts on this and other “revolving door” pick slanting licks. Specifically, do you all feel that frequent and abrupt pivoting of the pick slant during a lick requires any different motion mechanic than the more typical 2WPS licks where you might establish the pick slant for a few notes first, like in 3nps scale playing? For instance, in this “Double Outside Gilberts” lick, it looks to me like Troy’s wrist extends (i.e., the “door knocking” mechanic) a little more than in the picking leading up to the double outside section. It also sort of looks like his hand floats over the bridge a bit more during the “double outside” section. I could be wrong here on both observations. Does anyone see anything else?

Also, do people think that this maneuver is more “athletically demanding” than other 2WPS licks (e.g., like ones where you can coast for a while before switching the pick slant), such that physical endurance comes into play? A side issue is the question of if you can do a thing (like a double outside or double inside maneuver) once well in the context of a riff, up to speed, why might it be difficult to do the maneuver repeatedly when it is isolated?

Sorry for this rather long-winded post, and I hope I made some sense here. As always, thanks for reading, and I welcome any thoughts people may have about this.

-Greg

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#2

I think double outside Gilberts is a prime candidate for a massive, juicy swipe.

I feel like I recall someone on this forum saying that when Troy pointed out the swipe in Gilbert’s version he chucked his guitar out of the window.

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#3

It is true that Gilbert basically swipes these, at least some of the time, on the old “Intense Rock” classic lesson. However, it’s also not completely necessary to do so, and I’m sure if we were to look at Paul’s playing where he is not digging in so hard, I’m sure we could find examples of perfectly clean versions of this as well.

As you get more familiar with picking movements, try to think less about the terminology and more about what movements you can use to do things. The wrist, by itself, can make this movement (Albert Lee, Steve Morse, David Grier, Mike Stern). The wrist plus some fingers can also do it (Molly Tuttle). The wrist plus fingers and forearm can also do it (Martin Miller). The wrist and forearm but no fingers (Carl Miner) can do it. Some wrist and more forearm (Jimmy Herring). And so on.

If anything, the sheer variety of ways this can be done is probably one of the reasons players get confused. You just have to choose one method and work on it. Or experiment and try to do all / any of these, and see which one works first!

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#4

Pretty sure that was my post, though I think I said I only felt like throwing a guitar through a window. :smiley: And it was more frustration that it had been hidden in plain sight for so long.

But I mostly view the revelation as a positive thing. And as @Troy mentioned above, it is possible to play it clean, and the fact that Gilbert swiped it in that sitdown doesn’t necessarily mean he never plays it clean. But on a related note, one of my favorite moments from one of the “Talking the Code” sessions Troy did, was a skype caller who recounted “running around his house screaming” when he first saw Troy’s explanation of, I’m thinking it was Yngwie’s use of the legato escape hatch in the Black Star lick. Sort of an “oh my god! after all these years… that’s what he was doing!” :joy:

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#5

I remember that guy - he was from Brooklyn and I think he had gone to GIT or Berklee or something. Cool dude.