I’ve been practicing dwps for a while now and something just feels strange in my hands. When I play a downstroke it’s fine but when I go up, it just feels strange and limited.
When I try upward pick slanting it feels more natural. (If I’m even doing that correctly)
1 Like
Hi Jonny! Both of these look pretty good. In general, the supinated forearm and flexed wrist is pretty typical for a dwps player. And the relatively more pronated forearm and straighter wrist is typical for uwps players.
There are a hundred little variations you can play with to alter the feel of these movements, from the postures themselves, to the movements you make once those postures are set up. No single variant is correct or incorrect. In general, players like to think about edge picking, and you can alter that a bunch of different ways: by changing the approach angle of your arm/forearm, changing the amount of wrist deviation you start with, and changing the amount of bend or flex in the thumb. Another variable is whether the fingers are curled up or loose. And so on.
How long have you been working on this and what are you trying to play?
2 Likes
Ahh I see! Thanks! Well, I used to play with the trailing edge for 8 years and just last year I switched over to the leading edge and then I started dwps. But my main issue is that every time I try to lock into a high speed run it just seems like my picking hand automatically jumps back into regular edge picking. But if I play it slow, I can see and understand how dwps works but then once again I go into high speed and I just can’t hold that position… I have a feeling it has to do with the way I hold the pick?? I’m not so sure, it’s actually kind of frustrating and I feel that I just not meant to be able to play this way 
Not sure what you mean by ‘regular’ edge picking but there’s nothing wrong with trailing edge if that’s what you’re comfortable with. Pickslanting and the picking motion / motion mechanic are another layer on top of that.
Wait, so you’re telling me I could still play with the trailing edge (which I’m most comfortable with) and still use dwps?
Yes of course. This is what George Benson, Shawn Lane, and probably many others have done.
2 Likes
Thanks you for the help! And also here’s a vid of me playing with the trailing edge. I couldn’t really play any notes with me left hand because I was holding my phone, but you can see that I obviously get stuck in between the strings. I’m gonna try dwps with this technique; but I feel like it’s kind of difficult or awkward.
Cool clip. Can’t really tell with the long sleeve, but this appears to be wrist movement, deviation specifically, which is the same as what you’re using in your leading edge “uwps” clip. So in other words, very similar form here. The one difference I can see is that you’re using a radial offset in your leading edge clip, where as the wrist is more neutral in this one. This might account for why you feel the pick grip is altering your ability to play quickly. It’s not, it’s your wrist position.
For a refresher on what I mean by “radial”, check out the Guitar Anatomy lesson again:
https://troygrady.com/channels/tutorials/guitar-anatomy/
Once you’ve done that, take another look at these clips, and your leading edge uwps form, and see if you can spot what I mean by radial offset. It should be pretty clear. Then, try the leading edge setup again, but with a more neutral wrist (zero offset) like you have during trailing edge. And see if that feels more natural.
There is not a huge amount of anatomy you need to know to understand picking movements, and getting those basics down can really help the learning process be less confusing, because now you can look down at your hand and identify why things feel different.
Re: getting caught in the strings, yep, that will happen with no pickslant. And we have interviewed one player who actually plays that way, with trailing edge, all the time, and just swipes every string change - Jorge Strunz:
https://troygrady.com/interviews/strunz-farah/analysis-chapter-5-what-is-swiping/
https://troygrady.com/interviews/strunz-farah/analysis-chapter-6-jorges-swipe-mechanics/
Yes, you can hear it, sometimes pretty clearly. But the fact that it works as well as it does is pretty amazing. In a full mix, most people will never know it’s happening.
1 Like
Wow! This totally opened up my eyes. I’m blown away! Now I’m inspired to actually keep on playing with my old technique after watching those videos 
thank you so much Troy!
@Troy, so then is it safe to say that I’m using mainly forearm extension? I found, also, that I tend to go back and forth between extension and wrist deviation. I think I’m trying to find which one I like the most. I can’t play as fast with deviation yet but I felt more relaxed, and to me that means speed will come.
1 Like
Hi! In this clip you’re using elbow flexion/extension - that’s your whole arm moving from the elbow. It’s one of the big three movements, elbow, forearm, and wrist, so it can certainly work.
I’m not seeing any pickslanting changes here, and given the lines you’re playing where you change direction a bunch, that would imply you’re swiping, i.e. hitting open strings when you make string changes. I don’t have a problem with swiping per se - if it sounds good, it is good. In this case I can’t really hear anything, but you’re muting and this is not a close miked amp track, so it’s hard to tell.
In general, it’s a good idea to understand why swiping happens, how pickslanting (or crosspicking) solves this problem, and the kind of things you need to do to rearrange your fretting lines to make these solutions work. Even if you use swiping here and there, and many people do, again, it’s an informed type choice.
1 Like
Yeah, I apologize for the poor sound quality. I was using my iPhone to video and the amp was at a low volume behind the camera. It actually surprised me to see that I was using elbow flexion/extension. I have been working on Cascading 5s seen in the Eric Johnson series and think I’m definitely using my wrist more than elbow, and maybe a combo of both. Is there a video about swiping that I can watch to understand what you are talking about in your reply? I’m really working hard to understand the mechanics of picking so that I can make corrections that will empower me. I believe I’m starting to understand the concept of DWPS and see how it can help me. I’ve been playing guitar for decades now, but I have to admit that I didn’t really work on technique at all. I used to tell people that I was a “fly by the seat of my pants” guitar player. I realized that that was just a term for a sloppy player. I don’t want to be that guy anymore. I’m trying to make connections to things that will help me improve quickly. I must tell you that in all of my searching, I haven’t found anything like Cracking the Code. I went through a terrible divorce so I couldn’t afford the fee. But I’m back and I’m gonna use this great tool. Thank you!
Yep - it’s listed a couple posts above.
The key here isn’t so much swiping. It’s string switching. Why is string switching problematic? I consider this a totally fundamental question about guitar playing with a pick that everyone should be able to answer. Similar to everyone knowing how to check their oil and check the air in their tires kind of thing. Really that fundamental.
The basic idea is that in order to play a note on a string, you need to put the point of the pick below the string height. This only makes sense - you need to make string contact and push the pick through in order to play the note.
However, if the pick extends below the string height enough to play the string you want, then it extends below the string height enough to hit all the other strings too if you don’t do something about it.
In order to move to a new string cleanly, you need to make a movement so that the pick lifts above the string height again, so you don’t hit anything unwanted. This is what pickslanting does. If you don’t do this, you will hit a string, either the one you just played, or the one you are aiming to play next. That is what swiping is.
1 Like
Got it! I will check out the video. BTW, I’m watching the Live Michael Angelo Batio video. Very awesome interview!
@Troy, Ok, so I am trying the wrist supination and trying to concentrate on DWPS/UWPS. Here is a short video.
I can definitely feel the burn in my wrist and forearm area because I’m using muscles differently. Also,in my right arm/picking hand I had surgery three years ago to re-attach my bicep…freak accident. My arm healed quite well but I haven’t done any lifting in fear of tearing it again. No worries though. I am finding with this action, especially digging the pick in between the strings to find that DWPS/UWPS motion, there is more tension in my forearm that with elbow flex, but I also think their will be more authority and the strength and accuracy will come. What corrections do you see that I need to make?
In general I think your playing sounds fine, so I think we need to back up a second and ask the more general question of what is the problem you’re trying to solve?
It’s really easy to get lost in buzzword soup when it comes to some of these terms we’ve developed to describe things. And it may be totally unnecessary if what you’re doing is already working - which it seems like it is to some extent.
Picking motion is a good example. There’s no need to use any particular picking motion - one is not better than another. You were using elbow a moment ago and it was working. In this clip you’re using a combination of wrist and forearm. That also appears to be working. That’s a good thing - you’ve got options. But you may also have a little option anxiety!
Try not to worry too much about the “techniques” we have outlined and trying to use them all. They may not even apply to the kind of stuff you want to play. Instead, figure out a problem you’re trying to fix, or some specific thing you want to play, and go from there.
1 Like