DSX life - current status

Playing Technique
#1

:grinning: Okay, so last December (2022) I decided to say “!@#$@%! it, I need to figure this out!” and I enlisted Tom Gilroy’s assistance with taking care of some business in regards to guitar technique, and better understanding the CTC naming conventions. Between that and bouncing ideas off of the fine dudes on the forum here I’m happy to say that I think I’m at a point where things are starting to kind of leverage each other within the DSX framework. I am trying to learn how to do DBX but I second guess myself a lot so it’s pretty slow going. hahaha But I must say that I am very happy with my progress, and the DSX setup. Dang it if every time I record something I get a big heaping dose of that dang background tension… Ah well. Any feedback/insight is welcome, thanks to everyone for their insight and discussions that they make available here in the forums.

I made a video, and I guess you can watch it if you want, but have mercy on my crap playing as I ramble on I was gardening today (It’s what we old people do!) and got a bit sunburnt lol

Topics covered;

  • Advanced stringhopping (Black belt level).
  • Yellow Boss Overdrive pedal useage.
  • How to calculate the square root of infinity.
  • The importance of glowing lights in a guitar rig.
  • Evolutionary importance of chickens in regards to future exploitation of fission as energy.
  • Superman, better with or without the red shorts?

:cold_face: (The coolest emoji I could find)

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#2

Awesome video and progress report! You had some really ferocious phrases all throughout. Keep up the great work.

The square root of infinite always tripped me up. I figured it out once when I divided some number by zero…

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#3

Yeah, basically PI figures into it and there’s some cross multiplication (ohm’s law) and some transposition or something, I think I allude to it in the video…

Seriously though, thanks for checking it out, Joe! I am working hard at really getting the ole DSX burned into my dna!

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#4

Great work man! You can see, and hear, a huge improvement now compared to your previous elbow driven form. :love_you_gesture:

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#5

Thanks man! Yeah, you know that “old elbow” form is still available, I can do it whenever I want, but it comes with a LOT of background tension - I can feel it instantly! I never really did the same kind of “deep dive” into elbow as I have with my current setup, but I feel that the positives and potential with what I have developed so far in a few months surpass decades (truth) of laborious practice… I avoid that elbow form like the plague because for me, there is a deep association with tension. Tom Gilroy spotted it (The tension) immediately and suggested we do something radically different; leading edge grip, and wrist motion providing propulsion.

More to come guys. I think I am unravelling this stuff. Slowly, but surely…

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#6

@Scottulus you had a comment in your video about there being this consensus in the community that USX is generally preferred over DSX. Not saying that’s your actual stance or anything (it’s definitely not mine - I think all motions have pros/cons) but I definitely agree that I’ve seen more people chasing USX, even if DSX comes naturally to them. At least I think. I could be imagining it but I just feel like I see way more “help I can’t do USX” type of posts than anything else. It’s usually for reasons something like “…yeah…but Eric Johnson!!!” lol!

I made a poll on this recently and my biased expectation was that we’d see a majority of people longing for a USX motion.

WAY too small of a sample size to draw actual conclusions but I was surprised.

Anyway, on a different note, I was curious about the ‘start with upstrokes’ approach in your video. Did you also do that back when you primarily used elbow? I’m just generally wondering if you’re playing different types of phrases in your current setup, or if your vocabulary is similar, just much more relaxed feeling.

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Most fluid technique for switching between Rhythm and Lead
#7

Hey Joe! Goooooood Moooooooooorrrrrnin’!

My opinion on DSX/USX is that they are two sides of the same coin, kind of mirror images of each other and for each advantage, there is an opposing ummm “constraint”. I think that we, as guitarists tend to base what it is that we want to do off of what other players are doing. Yngwie and Eric are USX guys so @$#@##$@% I would sure like to sound like them - at first glance, the obvious path to owning their vocabulary is to mimic their setups. And I think a lot of folks kind of ignore what is right in front of them and chase after something that doesn’t come as naturally in respect to the physical execution.

Funny story, I was talking a lot with a guy here on the forums and he was pretty much like “Oh jeez, bro - rough luck being dealt THOSE cards…” (I am paraphrasing). I think we all form opinions based on our experiences (successes and failures) I am no different, that’s for sure. This whole experience over the last 8 or so months has really opened my eyes. So yeah, I have a loose opinion that maybe DSX is viewed as less desireable… Not that it matters, because I am doing it, no regrats! hahaha

My elbow playing. That’s interesting because I could play all my stuff starting on a downstroke or an upstroke particularly on 3nps stuff. I used a LOT of sweep stuff, and it worked not too bad but it was extremely difficult to control the rhythm. I think that I was able to recognize what worked and then I adapted the musical phrases to suit a very limited ability to execute. Tons of sweeping and legato, systematic swiping and an absolutely nasty background tension; I was actually working against that setup’s strengths a lot of the time.

Knowing what I know now, I would approach elbow very differently!

As far as vocabulary goes, that’s something that has changed quite radically with my setup. Single string stuff, that’s the same - legato and tap, I take that with me, hybrid picked and fingers I keep, but sweeping is really different now. That will need to be revisited. It feels like if I want to be good at sweeping a la Gambale or Harrison I need to develop a USX as well. It feels like ascending lines that incorporate a sweep are a bit weaker, whereas descending lines with a sweep are a bit smoother and rhythmically “better seated” if that makes sense.

But yeah, as far as alternate picking goes with my DSX setup it’s been a kind of “start from scratch” sort of situation just to get a vocabulary and line construction that jives musically with whatever else i am doing. hahaha When I am making mistakes or hiccups it’s because my age-addled brain has run out of RAM trying to process what I want to do!

(edit/add) This criteria list has been helpful in determining if a thing I do cuts the mustard…

  1. Efficient muscular activation against low background tension.
  2. Strong connection to internal clock.
  3. High dynamic range.
  4. The facility to reliably escape in at least one direction.
  5. Tracking capability across all six strings.
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#8

Hi @Scottulus .

I have to say again that I think the progression in your playing is genuinely astonishing. I watched some of the video of our first session (with my excellent Christmas sweater) together before typing this, and the difference between then and now is enormous.

Remember, it was only six months ago. Imagine where you can be in six years.

I’m delighted to been part of your transformation, but I would ask that you take some more of the credit for yourself. All I did was show you a different path, you’re the one who walked it.

Absolutely, I agree completely.

I’d bet you could make something great out of it, if you go about it the way you’ve trained your wrist movement (regular resets to establish and maintain low background tension, strongly connecting the movement to your time feel and single escape vocabulary). Also, since elbow is naturally DSX, it would naturally be compatible with your DSX line construction.

On this, a lot of Gambale’s lines are DSX with upstroke economy (like an inverted Yngwie Malmsteen). You could get those lines working without much difficulty.

I’m super glad I wrote that list of criteria down when I thought of it.

3 Likes
#9

In other forums I’m apart of and contribute in, any discussion of trying to play faster turns into some sort of “it’s not musical, or say more with less, OR THE GOLDEN NODS TO
DAVID GILMOUR playing so beautifully with such slow phrasing…” I sooooo wanted to bust your chops here with something like that. Maybe @Tom_Gilroy can figure out the mathematics behind how shredding conversation always ends up as a David gilmour discussion and nothing about physical technique… Alas, sounds great mate, keep up the good work. You’re an inspiration

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#10

Your playing sounds really authoritative and confident here, and a lot of these licks sound really cool! I love it.

Edit: Oh, and your tone is great too! Very smooth.

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#11

I’m really impressed with your progress, you sound totally transformed from back when we talked about trilogy! I really like that @Tom_Gilroy stuff, gawd damn that’s conjuring some heavy hittin Bach in my head. Well done, and keep going, but do take some time to just relax and flex that stuff when you need to as well, it’s great to just chill out and squeeze when nobody is expecting it :smiley:

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#12

Just to be clear, that’s not my lick. I shared some line construction principles and @Scottulus used them to build his own phrases. I think his playing is super cool, great ideas and phrasing.

Edit: One a re-watch one of those licks was mine. The single string lick wasn’t, and I thought it was really neat!

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#13

I think @Scottulus has always been immensely creative, his time with you has really cleaned up his act, all kudos to scott on the hard work put in, it’s clear as day. Please tab that one phrase, I’d like to dig into it if I may, I love it.
edit: i havent been playing for months, the fires are being stoked here, god bless you all.

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#14

Great progress! I love seeing these types of updates :grinning:

That’s what I’ve seen as well but in my own case I’m making the switch from USX to DSX (though still planning to keep USX for gypsy jazz).

The conundrum I’ve found myself in is that USX wrist-forearm is incredible for single escape but quite hard for helper motions. Wrist based forms seem to be better at using helper motions but my wrist USX taps out at about 195bpm and feels more tiring whereas my wrist DSX can go over 200bpm and feels comparatively effortless. Maybe this is because of the flexion involved in my wrist DSX compared to my solely deviation based wrist USX?

That being said Troy showcases footage of EVH doing what I think is wrist USX incredibly fast, perhaps the middle finger grip makes the motion more flexion based?

It’s crazy to me how much more masterful your playing can feel the more flexion you use, is this something you’ve experienced at all with your change of set up?

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#15

you being you is the coolest thing you can do

Beautiful guitar.

Man that is some serious feel you got, Really good playing.

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#16

Aww, thanks guys! I really appreciate the positive comments and insights. This forum is extremely supportive and you guys have been supremely helpful - the comments and discussions in the various threads have been thoroughly helpful! I am ready to begin! :grinning:

As far as my playing goes and how it feels in my RH, I really don’t gauge the movements per se, but rather judge by how much effort it feels like I am putting in, and if I feel any tension. Stopping and resetting has been key for me. lol I keep trying to do double escape, but honestly I get by just fine with single escape and the inclusion of hybrid picking and legato/tap. A whole universe of music waiting to be created.

Here is my application of Tom’s EDC note cycle exercise to a single string in Cmaj/Amin

E—12–13–15–12----12–13–10–12—12–8–10–12

And here’s the idea across strings using a symmetrical half-step pattern;

E----12–13–14–12------------------------------------------------
B---------------------------13–14–12–13--------------------------
G--------------------------------------------------14–12–13–14---- (edit - Fixed! Thanks, Tom!)

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#17

Thanks brother, I shall try these tonight.

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#18

Minor correction, @Scottulus has a typo on the last note.

The basic pattern in symmetrical form is

  1 2 4 1 2 4 1 2 4 1 2 4
|-6-7-9-6-----------------|
|---------7-9-6-7---------|
|-----------------9-6-7-9-|

It’s an even number of notes per string meaning it’s amenable to single escape picking, and it’s an efficient digital cycle for the fretting hand. Also, when played over a scale shape it naturally places the notes of an arpeggio on the beats, so it makes a decent lick.

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#19

Can you go into any detail about the specifics of this? Sounds straight forward but wondering if there are any other details

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#20

This is getting into lesson content, and it’s not the easiest thing to describe in text.

My goal is for students to establish low background tension to increase their sensitivity to tactile and kinaesthetic stimuli and to better facilitate movement. I want this relaxed state to become habitual.

The problem is that you can’t tell somebody to relax. It’s a little bit like starting a conversation with “Hey @carranoj25, don’t panic, but…” It’s not only not helpful, it’s actually counterproductive. You immediately try to find what’s wrong and try to “do” something to fix it. This is an excitory response, I’m trying to cultivate an inhibitory response.

I teach students a “reset” process which breaks habitual tension through interruption. They return to a state of lower tension, and their sensitivity increases. This state of lower tension state becomes habitual, and they learn to recognise when tension develops.

The increased sensitivity to haptic stimuli strengthens the sensory/motor feedback loop and accelerates motor learning. It also facilitates better connection between the sense of movement and sense of time.

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