DWPS and palm muting...Impossible?

Playing Technique
#6

I’m with Costanza. I find it trickier to palm mute with an UWPS than with an DWPS even though I’ve had a life long preference for the upward slanting. With UWPS, I can palm mute lower strings strings fine, but palm muting the higher strings becomes anatomically impossible If I want to keep the upward slant. The reason being is that I like anchor the bottom of my palm above the lower strings, and I use my wrist for string tracking. To palm mute the higher strings, my hand position goes from a pronated to a more supinated position, which automatically turns my upward slant into an downward slant. The only way I could get around this is to string track with my forearm, which I’m not comfortable with.

I can palm mute what OP posted easily with DW pick slanting because all I have to is rest the side of my of my hand on the bridge, and just play it without having to move my entire hand up and down.

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#7

I use palm for muting strings lower than that I play in the moment, and I use left hand fingers (usually index finger) for muting strings higher than the one I pick. Additionaly index finger often mutes one string above.
When playing DWPS I can’t get nice palm muting, especially when muting the same string I play at athe moment. I just can’t get right sound unless I change to UWPS.
Actually DWPS make it easier to mute higher strings… but since I’m used to use left hand for this it’s not a big deal for me.
I guess it’s the matter of habit.

#8

This is an interesting discussion because now I see the different challenges muting UWPS and DWPS. UWPS pushes the “meat” under you thumb to mute lower strings and DWPS can mute the higher strings naturally. I’m a natural DWPS, but I’ve been exaggerating the angle lately to ensure the pick clears the string on the upstroke. This helped me to play sequences faster, but that’s when I ran into the muting problem on lower strings. I’ve tried left hand muting(fret hand), but at faster speeds, forget about it. (this is the case for me anyway) Some good points have been mentioned and looks like I have some new stuff to experiment with. Thanks!!

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#9

…but looks like I need to really practice up on fret hand muting. Seems to be working for others. I can tell this is going to take some time to develop. :tired_face::smiley:

#10

This definitely does not need to happen with dwps. Whatever its limitations, one of the things dwps very well is right hand muting. The entire right side of the hand can stay absolutely connected to the strings on any string you are currently playing.

Take a look at this as an example, the intro lick, very first thing you see:

https://troygrady.com/primer/getting-started/chapter-1-the-problem-with-picking/

You can make out from the hand closeups how the hand attaches to the bridge. It’s pretty much planted the whole time. And you can hear the light muting I’m applying most of the way here for the first part of the phrase.

Best advice is to try and mimic this hand position if you want muting. If you’re having trouble, post a clip to technique critique with a camera angle that shows the “lifting” problem and we’ll take a look.

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#11

I would also like to chime in and say I struggle more with muting when UWPS, but moreso on the higher strings than the lower strings.

#12

I recognise the feeling of DWPS pulling you away from the strings. To me the picking motion feels more natural when having a flexed wrist, especially when rotating the arm, like in the gypsy style. When I started to try DWPS my hand pulled away a lot. It took som work to get the hand to do the motion while having a straighter wrist, but I still have problems with it. Especially when performing and tensing up a bit.

In UWPS, my normal position, the thumb contact with strings makes muting the low strings a lot more secure, as said. But palm muting, especially on the high strings, seem impossible to me.

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#13

I’ll try to upload a video to technique critique this week under the same subject title. It’ll be good practice for my cinematography skills. Thanks

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#14

this is exactly the question I want to say. I am used to mute the lower strings with my “hypothenar”. But it is impossible to do so together with DWPS.

As far as I am concerned, there are two methods to solve this: first I can reduce the extent of the DWPS so the I can still touch the lower string with my palm, second I will just tilt my hand when I change the picking string so that at most of the time my hand is not downward.

Anyway the truth is, you can not do both the muting and a fully DWPS. There is a trade off.

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#15

Hhhh here is the official answer- he does not mute when DWPS


I think the reason I can still hear the noise when I am playing is that I can’t play that fast, so the noise becomes more obvious
#16

On “slow” stuff, I instinctively use a mix of wrist deviation dwps and wrist “flextension” uwps, with the thenar eminence resting on the strings. I think the difficulty in muting comes not from the pickslant itself, but from the chosen mechanic and arm position. That is, the more forearm rotation you are using, the less practical it becomes to maintain muting with your right hand. With a wrist mechanic, it should still be possible to maintain muting if the dwps angle isn’t super steep. Personally I shift to more of a gypsy-style flexed-wrist-posture rotational mechanic for dwps, and I don’t notice a big string noise problem.

Another ingredient is left hand muting, particularly the use of the tip or side of the index figure to mute the adjacent string directly above the one being picked.

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#17

It was impossible for me at first, but now I think it works… not sure what changed!

Where I still find it hard to mute is fast ascending dwps lines, like a straight pentatonic scale.

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#18

Lately I have worked a lot on using rotational movement because of the relaxed and “free” feeling, but as soon as I try palm muting I feel much more hindered and tensy. I realized this was a true problem yesterday when recording a solo in a shredy fashion. I guess I unconsciously and automatically aimed for an aggressive muted picking sound, and all of a sudden all my newly practiced licks felt really awkward and stiff to play. It’s really strange sometimes that you can practice stuff that doesn’t really represent what you instinctively want to hear when you actually make music.

But as already said, the more rotational mechanic the harder it is to mute for me. And when I do mute the motion becomes more deviated I think.

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#19

To me this also makes sense, but could it be due to our chosen hand position and/or pick grip? I think if you mute with the pinky side of your palm you may have enough range of motion left for the rotation (but to me that is a bit uncomfortable)

#20

Yes I think the motion is still mostly rotating for me. But it feels very different. It might be that the unmuting motion has more momentum and power. Your whole arm is free to help the picking motion. While the muting version has less help from the arm.

#21

This is how dwps muting works, with the hypothenar. You can see this in the “Pickslanting Primer Intro Lick” clip above - the pinky side of the hand is resting on the strings.

I’m using a “rotational” picking motion in that clip as well, so hypothenar muting still works while doing this. Of course, most “rotational” picking techniques aren’t really only forearm, so there’s a bit of wrist involved as well. Depending on the blend of wrist vs. forearm the contact point changes, but you can still use hypothenar muting in these blends as long as you don’t do the gypsy wrist flex and lift entirely off the strings.

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#22

I can only do it with UWPS.

I would like to see somebody play the end of “No remorse” with DWPS and not light PMing either. :grin:

#23

One could argue that you’re only really ever “palm” muting when using dwps because with uwps you kind of have to use the side of your thumb to mute the strings.

#24

Al DiMeola mutes while using DWPS doesn’t he? He’s considered the innovator and master of muted picking lines.

#25

I think what you’re referring to is the pronated arm position that uwps players often use. But as has been mentioned on here before, I tend to do uwps from a slightly supinated arm position. Watch any of the Primer or seminar clips and you’ll see it. So I can still palm mute with uwps. Andy Wood often plays more pronated than me but less than someone like Oz Noy. So Andy’s muting can still come from the palm.

Ultimately, you have arm position and picking motion. The arm can be pronated or supinated. The motion can be uwps or dwps. You can use either with either, although certain combinations, like supinated dwps, are so common as to be nearly universal. But the uwps world is a little trickier.

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I think i need some help about the uwps