DWPS with a more pronated approach?

Playing Technique
#1

This website has changed my life recently. I’m slowly learning the terminology, and things are slowly clicking more and more these days.

The biggest breakthrough I’ve had recently was forcing myself to work on DWPS. I’ve been mainly an UWPS from what I can tell in the past.

One thing I’ve noticed when DWPS, is I have a tendency to want to lean against the strings a bit with the inner hand. I’m sure that’s from muscle memory of UWPS. At times when I can force myself to let go, and go much more supinated, things naturally feel very smooth eventually.

My question is, is it possible for an DWPS to have a little bit of pronated approach and lean a giants the strings, or should I try to abandon it altogether. It almost feels like I’m falling off a mountain and losing control when I’m very supinated, but I can see in time how it can probably change the game for me…I think, lol.

Would love to hear insight and thoughts on this.

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#2

Hey @Bluedude2000,

just out of curiosity: why do want to change your technique? Is it because “the old technique” didn’t work so well? In that case it would of course make sense to try something else. I’m just saying this, because there is nothing wrong with UWPS per se.

Also, whatever your problems are, maybe it’s not so much a question of DWPS vs. UWPS, but rather something about the movements that your are making to achieve your pickstrokes. I would argue that it’s important to find out what your movements are before you try to change them. Have you tried to analyze them?

Finally, let me come to your actual question :wink: I find it hard to imagine DWPS with a pronated forearm position. I don’t really think it’s possible, but maybe I’m missing something here…

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#4

Hey @tomatitito

Great questions you’re asking. Well from what I can tell, a lot of lines I play before changing strings end with an upstroke, (pentatonics, 2 note per sting, etc, 3NPS ending with an up)

From my basic knowledge, this doesn’t solve everything of course, as a lot of lines end up on a downstroke as well. From reading lots of forum posts here, it’s generally easier to commit to getting fluent in both VS committing to one (EX: UWPS) and then on the last note play a DWPS before changing strings. It’s easier on the brain too if I can commit to DWPS the whole if it’s possible, from what I can see. And ultimately I’m looking for the most flexible freedom.

From what I can see and have read, with UWPS and DWPS as long as you’re making that straight diagonal movement using wrist deviation, that’s what I should be going for. VS the Smiley face/crosspicking/stringhopping U thing…

But anyways, with the original question, there are levels of how much supination I can have. And what I’ve found is there is a level of supination perhaps that can touch the strings a little bit with the inner hand and still have DWPS. Obviously the more supinated I am , the more steep the slant is. Which I was trying to explain felt very awkward because I’m used to a more pronated feel, but the more I stick with it it seems to slowly feel a little bit more natural.

But what I’m really getting at is, do some players have less of a DWPS slant, and still touch the strings a little bit with the inner hand? Or should I stop hanging on to aspects of my old teqnique and keep the strings wide open w/ the right hand. I hope this makes sense what I’m asking haha.

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#5

For those even number of lines that normally end on an Upstroke- just start them with an Upstroke instead of a downstroke fo make them work for UWPS. So that each string will be UD.

If you want to start those type of lines on a downstroke then you will have to learn DWPS- which is easier with a Supinated approach. Personally I use the Yngwie rotation approach but you will have to experiment and drill to find what works.

Now if you want to do 3NPS Stuff then you have to do TWPS where you would go DUD UDU® only having to rotate every 6th note if you start in UWPS. Just a quick rotate, rotate back.

For 1NPS you can learn Economy Picking or Crosspicking- an entirely different topic.

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#6

Hey @Bluedude2000,

you touch on a lot of things in your post and I’m not sure I completely understand everything you say. I think, ultimately you will get the most out of this forum if you upload a clip of your playing in the technique critique section. That way a lot of people can look at your playing and you will gain new insights.

Hmm, I personally didn’t get the feeling that there is consensus about something being generally easier than other things. I rather have the impression that different players may have different feelings on what works well and what doesn’t.

Yes, it is possible to have a supinated forearm and have your right hand rest on the strings, if that’s what you mean.

That is a very important point! It doesn’t seem right to me to completely abandon what you have been doing so far. Again, it’s not really possible to get more specific here without seeing what you actually do, but I can’t imagine that you are doing something that is so wrong, that you should just stop. Especially since you say that

which seems to feel good to you as oppsosed to a more supinated setup which

Don’t get me wrong, I do think you should experiment with all the different ways of playing. But again, if it feels good, keep doing it. I’m not sure if that was helpful, let me know what you think!

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#7

@tomatitito

I guess I’m touching on too many things in one post ha!

Basically just wondering if it’s common for DWPS to have context with the strings w the inner hand, or is it generally more common to have a more supinated approach where you’re not touching the strings at all?

#8

Hmm, from everything I’ve seen I would say it’s rather common for DWPS players to have the pinky side of their palm rest on the strings.

#9

Thanks! Are there any examples of this I can see? Is this how Troy Grady plays a well?

Seems like it might be more difficult on a strat style guitar.

#10

If you’re talking about wrist motion, all pickslanting paths are technically possible with all forearm setups. You can be a pronated dwps player, you can be a supinated uwps player. Or vice versa. You just choose whichever wrist movement produces the pickslanting path you want. However there is what’s possible and what’s common. It is more common to see supinated uwps players than it is to see pronated dwps players.

Of players we have interviewed, Mike Stern is the most slightly supinated dwps player we have seen. He is almost flat on the strings and his thumb heel probably touches or at least lightly grazes. If you are curious you can check out his clips to see what you can see there.

However, before you change anything, I would echo what others have said. This is not martial arts, there is no need to learn everything. My best advice is to get good at any single thing first. It doesn’t matter what it is. Then write and play lines with that technique until they are really comfortable. Reason being, getting good at anything is the best way to make it easier to learn other things. Until you’re really blazing with even one technique, you’ll never really know what it’s like.

Getting good at something is also the best way to determine if learning other techniques is even necessary, or not as necessary as you thought. There are tons and tons of musical possibilities with any single one of the techniques we have investigated. Many musical legends, like EJ or Yngwie or McLaughlin, have used mainly one of these relatively simple motions.

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