I am wondering what the forum would think about using economy picking for the volcano material? Keeping the rules the same as far as ascending scale passages but invert them for descending using upward pick slanting I guess this could be considered 2 way pick slanting seeing there would also have to be occasional alternate picking involved when leaving a higher pitched string with a downstroke to a lower pitched string with an upstroke. I am thinking this may cause problems with the arpeggio material but would love some input. Thanks.
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That just makes it standard economy picking but without the even number turnarounds that someone like Gambale has built into his lines. The actual A minor lick of Yngwie’s that Troy renamed volcano is a case in point of why a downward pick slanter would do it that way. For that lick, you could economy pick back to the lowest string in each string pair chunk but in doing so, have to hop back to the higher string in each pair for the next chunk. The extra energy used in that lick is one example where I see no pay-off, personally speaking. Anything’s doable though. You would just have to try and weight up the pros and cons.
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I do this all the time!
But not for Yngwie lines. It’s unnecessary, since his phrases, EJ’s phrases, Marty Friedman’s lines, and those of other dwps players are already structured as mechanically simply as possible. So as @Jakku points out there’s probably no actual benefit in doing them other than the way he actually does them. I can’t imagine something like Yngwie’s “Volcano Lick” being done any faster than the absurd speed at which he plays it. And I would call that “economy picking”, since like lots of Yngwie lines, it features a combination of sweeping and alternate picked string changes.
For lines that do benefit from “upside down Yngwie” approaches, you can look at our Jimmy Bruno interview, and our upcoming Oz Noy and Frank Gambale interviews. They are all in some sense, different takes on this. Most economy type players in general work this way if they do any alternate picked string changes.
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Thanks Jakku I would not alter the volcano picking pattern but am thinking about using upward pick slanting for descending lines
Thanks Troy for your reply. I wouldn’t consider changing the rules for ascending scale lines but do feel at times a sweep works fairly well on descending lines like 4 notes on the high e string like g f# e d# to c b a on the b string with a sweep from d# to c. Would that be economy picking or more like 2 way pick slanting? I don’t see a better way to play 2 string arps than the way you present them in the volcano seminar, what are your thoughts on using strict sweeping on those? Thanks
The phrase dictates when sweeping can be used, and what kind, and what pickslant is necessary. So I don’t really have “thoughts” on this, per se.
Two-string arpeggios that repeat, where the low string has a single note – like Yngwie’s “Trilogy” – those are dwps phrases. Two-string arpeggios that repeat where the upper string has the single note and the lower one has two, those are uwps phrases. That’s your “upside down” Yngwie scenario.
Two-string arpeggios that have an even number of notes on both strings is an additional case. Lots of seventh chord arpeggios can be played this way, two notes per string. In this case, you can can use EITHER pure alternate OR pure sweep. In the case of pure alternate, you can use dwps or uwps, but you have to start on the correct pickstroke.
If you understand each of the scenarios I just described, then you understand the math of the ways these approaches are combined.
Write your line, choose the method it requires. If multiple methods fit because the situation permits more than one, like the seventh chord arpeggio, then try them all and keep the one that is easiest.
Then practice!
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What is the usual Motion Mechanics for these 2 Way Economy Picking Guys? My usually motion mechanic is Wrist Deviation (plus other stuff depending on the picking Style), but eventually the wrist just runs out of range of motion- it can only travel so far. How are these guys traversing multiple strings with one motion?
I think 2WPS + Economy is one of the most powerful picking approaches as it can do every string change with pure Alternate Picking and can also Economy pick them as well. That’s any 1/2/3 note per string change (although the 1NPS stuff has to be in the same direction- hard to do 1 Note turnarounds repeatedly without crosspicking)
I think you will get a lot of different opinions about this. My own personal preference is to stop my normal picking motion in mid-stroke… and then do all the movement using my tracking mechanic, aka my elbow. This kinda simplifies things for me. But I know other people have very different preferences.