Economy picking questions

Playing Technique
#1

Old Dog here, trying to learn some new tricks! I have a couple of questions on economy picking and was hoping to get some feedback. Apologies if these questions have been asked before.

  1. On the Yngwie’s volcano lick, the 5th note of the pattern is an upstroke, but the 6th note (returning to the lower string) is a downstroke. Is there some advantage to doing a downstroke of the 6th note instead economy picking it as an upstroke (continued upstroke after the 5th note)? Perhaps is it merely what Yngwie chose to do, but either way could work.

  2. Similar question on a video that @Troy posted titled ‘Talking the Code: Combining Alternate Picking and Sweeping’. When ascending a scale, he uses economy picking to cross strings (which is my tendency too). Then you have to switch to alternate picking at the top of the scale to turn around and descend. Troy again uses economy pick to descend. My question is when reaching the lowest string, Troy chooses to downstroke the first note on the lowest string instead of carrying through the upstroke from next higher string. Again, is there an advantage to this? It feels uncomfortable to me to break the cycle of economy picking until reaching the lowest note. I hope this makes sense (video link below)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hROwfXnVlQo

#2

No problem! Good question.

Yngwie is not using “economy” in the sense that you may be familiar with it, where people try to use sweeping in all directions. He’s using USX motion, where the pick moves along a diagonal so that upstrokes escape. Because of this, the downstroke is the only trapped pickstroke. This means only downstroke sweeping is possible. During upstrokes, the pick is in the air. This is why you only see one direction of sweeping in Yngwie’s playing.

In Cracking the Code we sometimes call this “one way economy”. Many famous players use the USX version of one-way economy: Yngwie, George Benson, Eric Johnson, Django / Gypsy players, and so on.

I haven’t watched the Volcano seminar in a while but it really should make it clear that the diagonal motion is the reason for this, and that downstroke sweeping is the only available direction. If it doesn’t, that’s on us! We will eventually update the Primer with clearer details on this.

Our recent Dweezil Zappa lesson recaps some of this, you can check it out here. If you give this watch, this explanation may be clearer. The pattern I’m teaching here includes downstroke sweeping:

The core requirement for any USX phrase is USX tremolo. If your tremolo is not USX, then none of these Yngwie licks will work correctly. Trying to go slow and work them up to speed will not produce a USX tremolo. It’s like a skateboard trick - something you just need to “do” from the outset. You can test this by performing a tremolo and filming yourself to see the escape. It must be USX. Once you have that, you can add in the downstroke sweeps. But not the other way around.

Sorry for the novel! Let me know if that helps.

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#3

@Troy Thanks for the response, it makes perfect sense. I’ll re-watch these videos. My natural style is USX ‘one way economy’ and I’ve always thought of it as something ‘wrong’ (mixing economy when ascending across strings but alternate when descending), but now I feel better! lol

As for my 2nd question, can you address why you switch to alternate when descending to the lowest string instead of continuing with economy like on strings 3,4, and 5? Thank you!

#4

Without rewatching that, I may be mixing different techniques. If that’s what I’m doing, I wouldn’t worry too much about that because what matters is whatever joint motion you do currently.

Again, the most important aspect of any picking technique is just the motion you use to pick a single note repeatedly. It should be fast and feel easy, and you should know which escape it has. When in doubt, film a test and watch in slow motion to confirm. Try not to assume based on what you may think you’re doing. At worst you spend ten minutes and you move on. At best it saves you massive wasted time.

If it really is USX, this style has rules. The final pickstroke on every string must be an upstroke or a downstroke sweep. The “direction” of the phrase doesn’t matter, only the final pickstroke. This measn you can’t play three notee per strings scales with USX, for example - only scale patterns where the final note on every string is an upstroke. Anything else will cause the motion to change to a different motion.

You can always learn new styles / motions over time, but try to find out what is working now and make sure simple phrases with that motion are fast and perfect.

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#5

@Troy Thanks for the additional reply and explanation. I can do a variety of 3NPS phrases at a decent speed, so there is more going on than I am aware of. I may post a video later in the Technique forum for further feedback. Overall, my goal is to improve on my weaker picking techniques and eventually approach your speed and accuracy.

One more question please. I can do the Paul Gilbert and Pepsi licks much faster using ‘inside’ picking. There is a video where you discuss ‘inside’ vs ‘outside’ pitching and switch between them smoothly at high speed. Did it take a long time to get both up to speed, or was it natural for you? I’ve been trying to apply pickslanting, but still have a ways to go on the outside phrases.

#6

Yes I understand that that people often mix and match various complicated motions. That is part of the problem of why players often lack clarity as to why some things work and others don’t. To get that clarity, and to begin to answer these questions you have about why phrase ABC works better than phrase XYZ, determining basic escape is the best first step.

When people get to tremolo speed, they only have one motion. Whatever that is, and
whatever escape they have, that’s going to be the easiest and cleanest thing they can play. Anything else they attempt that requires a different escape is going to involve some kind of modification of this motion, or deviation from it. Everyone should know this fact about themslves.

Things like the Paul Gilbert lick always require some type of compound motion, either DBX or two-way pickslanting. This will involve your core motion plus some other thing that you change to make this and other similar patterns work. Inside picking is usually more two-way pickslanting solution.

But again, that is putting the cart before the horse. What is the core motion when going at tremolo speed? What joint is it, and what escape does it have? Film it in slow motion to verify. Once you know what it is, play and film a few simple test phrases that use only this escape. Confirm with slow motion that the phrases are clean across the strings and the escape is working the way you think.

That’s where I’d start!

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