Economy picking

Playing Technique
#21

yes basically just having a brief gap pause and adding a note each time. i think this was the first picado exercise in the video, the other to me seems like it would help develop flamenco 3 finger economy picado. both against the grain of what he is showing since he is teaching traditional picado, but it can help develop 3 finger economy picado if you are after a matteo mancuso technique.

this same ascended add note brief gap loop can be done descended as well you will just have to have some kind of motion developed. i use mainly thumb index when doing it descended.

1 Like
#22

For me I’m only using a pick, I can do that alternate ok, but this should be a great exercise for swybryd picking. I’ve been trying it but it’s akward for me.

The full hand stuff is really cool.

1 Like
#23

of course this is where you should be going but these techniques can take time to master. but the quicker you start to incorporate them the faster you will develop something to then begin to master it for speed. however they can quickly overlap the more broad main technique of one way escape which to me is the technique that is most freeing for carefree playing. these tricks are for when you need a hack if you will so you can attain a tempo. well at least that is how i view them so it is my opinion. if you can do these things and ingrain them so deep than that is great i envy you. :smiley:

#24

https://youtu.be/J641ZwkYR-I?si=bkiBssCaZFUtJtzW

#25

Here is a link https://youtu.be/J641ZwkYR-I?si=bkiBssCaZFUtJtzW technique help

#26

Thanks for the video! Hand sync is probably the main thing to work on, based on watching that. I’d break it down string change by string change

Considering a phrase like this (sort of C harmonic minor flavored):

B|------------------12 13 15
G|---------12 13 15----------
D|12 13 15-------------------
   d  u  d  d  u  d  d  u  d

I’d focus on nailing this:

G|---------12
D|12 13 15-
   d  u  d  d

Making sure you’ve got perfect hand sync, hard accents too for the first downstroke on the D string, as well as the first downstroke on the b string

Then see if you can do this

B|------------------12
G|---------12 13 15---
D|12 13 15------------
   d  u  d  d  u  d  d

Same thing, go for perfect hand sync, hard accents on the first downstroke of the D, G and B strings

Also, for a lick like that, you want to make sure you don’t get “lazy” with the fretting hand (not saying you were, I actually wasn’t watching your fretting hand). By that I mean each finger needs to release its tension as the next finger frets. That way you’re never caught off guard when you suddenly need a finger. I see this happen to people if they leave all the fingers down as they ascend then “suddenly” they have to scramble to lift the index finger to fret the next string. The “right way” will have your fretting hand just cycling as if you’re drumming your fingers on the table, like a little motor.

#27

Thank you! I have noticed my fretting has been lazy lately.?Thanks for the advice!!

#28

I think I might do it slightly different to Joe I’m not sure?, I do it just 123… 123… 123. For the basic technique. The dots would be the resting on the next string.

Like I say in the video you can do the same coming back down, but I prefer pull offs. Usx, rest stroke and pull offs have let me play fast. It might not be metronome perfect, but I’m not after that, I like the looseness of it. It’s got more character to me rather than a perfect on time picking technique like alternate.

1 Like
#29

A brand new guitar AND a nip slip in the same video!! Lol!

Playing sounds great too. Honestly I see benefits in your approach and mine. They each sort of focus on a different aspect. Yours isolates the clean economy motion. Maybe that is step 1 and mine is maybe step 2, where it helps to sync the hands at that critical point of the string change.

1 Like
#30

So I do agree with the others that you do have sync issues which honestly isn’t uncommon when first trying to get this technique under your fingers. most of the time it’s reactionary and either hand tries to compensate for the other. Most often the fretting hand.

The other thing I see though, is that you are going at it a little rough with the picking hand. Again this is likely a compensation.

I honestly think you are trying to play too fast right out of the gate, and this is a time you need to back it down and focus on the coordination. This is the hardest part because this technique is naturally a faster one but you already are playing it a decent enough speed to know it’s not an inefficient picking hand technique.

How is your hand sync normally - playing 4’s and 6’s?

#31

Nipples and long hair are the true power of 80’s shred lol

image
image1920×1080 126 KB

1 Like
#32

What’s interesting is i thought my hand sync was very good until you and the other user pointed it out. Now im noticing it really is not the best and could use some work. Im noticing especially at slower speeds its much worse…or i just dont notice at faster speeds! Im sort of getting the feel better of economy, im not forcing as much. Any tips on hand sync besides the usual 6 note pattern? I think i have been working on getting everything fast, fast fast while subconsciously forgetting about hand sync maybe?

#33

I wrote this a while ago to help my own hand sync, it’s been a huge help. Also playing it with “back” cycles (pinky, middle, index etc) instead of the way I have it written is great.

You can modify it to your needs obviously. The periods of just tremoloing one note were directly related to me noticing that on a new motion I’d learned, once I introduced fretting, the motion would drift back into a different motion without me being aware. It allowed me to sort of “reset” and confirm the motion stayed consistent in my picking hand. So, killing 2 birds with one stone.

Other tips on hand sync - palm muting is helpful, and accents accents accents!!! On the beat, at regular sort of “off beat” interval. Something to make sure you’re locking into a rhythm.

#34

Wow! Trying that out now…and that is a bit difficult for me. Looks like i gotta work on it. Thanks!

#35

How should i accent the notes? At the start of the new set of 4 16th notes on the downstroke?

1 Like
#36

While I’ve been on my lil’ USX journey, I’ve been kind of re-developing an ease in my picking at lower tempos. Since I’ve found “my motion” I’m working to get that same level of ease with USX as well. It keeps me at that particular tempo for longer than is probably necessary but I just turn on 175 and leave it while I play and put on some movies or marathon a show. I want everything I pick to feel like that, regardless of the motion I use for whatever I’m playing. It’s making that journey take longer but is that really a bad thing??

What I’ve noticed at that tempo when I’m not actively “practicing” is that my casual descending 3nps (pure economy) is so at ease that I barely look like I’m playing anything. It’s weird because no other lines look like that, I never tried to learn it or develop it, and if I had a guitar with 33 strings, I could probably keep descending until I ran out. I’ve tried it ascending and it’s not even remotely close. I can do it at that speed but not with economy. Descending 3nps is the only place that happens… Perhaps someday…. Lol

#37

Yes. Once you get that down and you want to be self loathing and tortuous, you would switch the accent to the second, third, and fourth.

1 Like
#38

Right, what @Fossegrim said. I did put accents in that soundslice, they are attached to the “notation” though so they’re easy to miss if looking at just (which I am sure most of do, me included). They are right on the beat though. The idea is to be able to start the cycle on any finger and keep locked into the rhythm.

#39

So there is a funny quirk in what Murph is playing in the vid that makes both of these approaches one and the same. It is all very valid, and honestly doesn’t really require a huge shift in focus.

Maybe if the winds blow correctly these next few days, I may come out of hiatus to post something that might help from my perspective and experience with the technique.

#40

after working on that hand sync for the past couple days. i have realized that has been a huge problem for me possibly. im up to 80bpm on it. i have also started counting the rhythm in my head while playing 1 e and a, 2 e and a…etc do you guys ever do that while your playing?