EJ and left-hand fingerings (was: Deceptively difficult licks)

Even though I’ve been a MiM subscriber since the beginning, I hadn’t actually tried to work through the Eric Johnson material before, but am now dipping my toe in it.

I’m satisfied with my progress so far, but what jumped out at me was how awkward the ascending pentatonic fives patterns feels at first. Descending fives feel perfectly “natural”, but ascending I really had to slow things down to figure out how to get my fretting hand to feel “smooth” (particularly fretting a ring-finger bar or roll for the consecutive up on D-string 14th fret and down on A-string 14th fret).

Another factor is fingering for the EJ stuff. While Troy doesn’t mention it much (apart from Eric’s predominant use of index-ring fingerings), I notice @Troy doing some interesting “intuitive” swapping of the middle finger for the ring finger at certain places in the fives pattern. Right now I’m choosing to play in a more pedantic positional way, using index-ring-pinky, though I know EJ and Yngwie use index-middle-ring fingerings similar to Troy to “save” the pinky for wider stretches.

Part of the reason is that in my early days of guitar, I underutilized the pinky, and I now try to work it into licks I know could be played without it, sort of in a mission to avoid having it figuratively “atrophy” from disuse.

This made me think more broadly about three-note-per-string diatonic patterns, and the fingering of the “whole step, half step” spread. There are some situations where for string change reasons it is more ergonomic to fret that spread in a strict “positional” way: index-ring-pinky, and other situations where it is more ergonomic to fret that spread as index-middle-ring. On some level, this seems less efficient than having a fixed set of repeatable fingerings that get applied in every situation, but my non-scientific observation is that it seems like most high-profile “shred” players use a “swap in whatever fingering fits the situation” approach that becomes automatic for each lick through repetition over time.

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It would be cool if Troy did a session (or series of sessions) on fingerings so that we could get more insight on how some of these great players approach it.

I’ve was taught from the very beginning to use a Positional approach - i.e. use all four fingers, each finger gets its own fret to play. However, I’ve recently been toying with different variations.

One thing which stood out to me is the fact that Yngwie (and many other players for that matter) seem to favour using their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd fingers for a lot of patterns. I used to think that this might have been a personal preference or maybe just laziness on their part in not training the 4th finger more. However, recently I’ve been finding that this may not be the case.

Some of you may have heard that the 3rd and 4th fingers share a common tendon. I believe that this is the reason why many great players prefer using the 1-2-3 combination. If you have the choice between using fingers 1-2-3 and 1-3-4, 1-2-3 will always win out for speed and control because you are using 3 tendons instead of just 2 (1 for the 1st finger, 1 for the 3rd and 4th fingers).

Here is an example of what I mean:

This also applies to the stretched (5 fret span) fingerings. If you compare 1-2-4 and 1-3-4, once again the 3 tendon option seems to win out for speed and control.

There will of course be situations where because of flexibility or the actually situation of what is played that using the more favourable fingering may not be the best idea.

Anyone else notice these things in their own playing or the playing or great guitarists?

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One interesting thing about this is that while I use 1-2-4 for the wholestep-wholestep spread, I’ve heard of some people prefering 1-3-4 for that spread, which, according to your point above, is inherently disadvantageous (though I imagine it still might be more comfortable or in fact necessary for some people due to individual variations in finger length, etc.)

I think Guthrie Govan once called the pinkie “God’s cruel joke”. Like you guys, I’ve tried to overcome natural inclinations from my early years of just using fingers 1-3 and get that pinky up to speed with the rest of the team. I think there’s some value in the “pedantic” approach of one-finger-per-fret, but find that it really varies by where you are on the neck.

Up around the 12th fret and higher it can get a little crammed trying to get that pinky in there for 1-2-4 or 1-3-4 fingerings, and some times using the first three fingers is the only way to get them all to fit. As a result I’ve noticed that in my playing I tend to be more one-finger-per-fret lower down the neck (where the bigger frets are) and “revert” to the 1-2-3 approach higher up the neck. It also has the advantage of freeing up the pinky for four-note-per-string licks higher up, which I really like the sound of.

Even without accounting for that very good point, I realized that at least for this lick, it makes more sense to use separate fingers to play consecutive notes on adjacent strings at the same fret rather than using a roll or bar with one finger. So now I’m trying it with a more EJ/Yngwie/Troy fingering: fingers 1-3 every place where there are two notes on the same string, finger 2 every place where there is one note on a string by itself (making an exception at the low E and A so I don’t have to try to make finger 2 stretch to reach the lone G (15th fret) on the low E string immediately after finger 3 frets the B (14th fret) on the A string). This overall fingering feels like it will allow speed to “ramp up” much better that the positional fingering.

Also, re: the point about cramping: I find that for a lot of “traditional” 12 fret position licks, I like to work on them initially at the 7th or 9th fret, where the fingers have more “elbow room”, and I don’t have Gilbert-esque hands or anything. And I’m playing a 25.5" scale guitar. Way back in the day, I did most of my learning on a 24.75" scale guitar with huge frets, which in retrospect I think made playing the upper frets more daunting than necessary.

Herp a derp. Troy actually talks about EJ’s fingerings a lot in Cascade Ch. 9. For some reason that had escaped me.

Another useful outcome for the index middle ring combo on licks rather than using more of the pinky is that, at least with a lot of Yngwie licks, after completing note patterns he slides up to quickly bend notes skyward into devilish wide vibrato. I found it’s much hard to hit those notes quickly with decent purchase using the little old pinky.

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