Eric Johnson Trademark Solo Question

[joebegly]

I’ve been working on Trademark for years. In the past it was hopeless because I had no clue about USX/DSX. Now that I sort of know what I’m doing I am getting close.

The only challenging part for me is here:

Eric Johnson - Trademark

Curious on the best fingering approach as I’ve found 2 ways to play it that follow the USX rules. I’ve indicated where the economy picking and slurs happen, at least that’s how I’m hearing it! lol!

I can play each ‘half’ at tempo but connecting them is always a little messy for me. Lately I’ve been leaning more toward option 2. It seems more like how EJ would play this since it has more ‘box’ type patterns in it.

Has anyone here tackled this one? If you have, how do you play it? If you haven’t played it, how would you approach this part?

I should add, all the live clips I find of this, he just flat out does not play this part haha! So I’m left being a detective.

[JBakerman]

Here’s what I figured it was. There’s a quick 1-fret slide out of the last note in the first measure, which is a clue he’s switching fingers for the next F#-G# to leave the index free for the D#.

This is in a Hal Leonard book I did all the transcriptions for, BTW.

Eric Johnson - Guitar Play-Along Volume 118

[joebegly]

Nice. You know, early on I had come up with something where the last 3 beats were close to what you’ve supplied. I had issues with this part though:

I could never figure out how to shift there quickly enough. That sneaky index finger slide on the E string from 11 to 9 sorts that though. I’ll try getting this under my fingers and see what happens. Thanks again for chiming in!

[joebegly]

POST MORTEM:

I just cannot make this part smooth:

BUT if I steal your idea and just move it up the neck in a different position, keeping that awesome little index slide, it smooths the whole thing out and now I’m almost there! I think I can work this up to snuff:

At the end of the day, if I can get this phrase 98% I can die happy (I’m a simple man and the bar is set low).

POST MORTEM #2
Shawn Lane covered this.

Shawn Lane - Trademark

Shawn Lane - Trademark - LIVE in Argentina Oct 2000

Around the 2:50 mark in the second video, it’s just not even fair lol

Game Over

[Tom_Gilroy]

Hi @joebegly.

This would be my solution. Excuse the handwritten tab.

[JBakerman]

That seems possible, easier for both hands with those F#s moved to 1st string. I think it’s more likely he played it that way than what I posted.

[Tom_Gilroy]

I think my solution is easier for both hands too.

I can’t be sure that it’s how Eric actually played it, but it’s consistent with what I understand of his picking and fretting hand mechanics. In particular, the picking is pure USX and the fingering is reminiscent of a lick I remember copying from a live video.

[joebegly]

Thanks @Tom_Gilroy and again @JBakerman. It’s interesting you both heard some extra slurs that I didn’t. Also, you both had a very similar solution (the index slide from D# to C#) that was occurring at the spot where I was struggling when playing both measure connected. So I’ve now got enough options to tackle it. One more item off the bucket list

@Tom_Gilroy

I can’t be sure that it’s how Eric actually played it, but it’s consistent with what I understand of his picking and fretting hand mechanics. In particular, the picking is pure USX and the fingering is reminiscent of a lick I remember copying from a live video.

This is what I was wondering. All of my solutions worked with his USX picking but I suspected I was playing something in a position that’s different than what EJ would do. Since I can’t find a clip of Trademark live where he plays this, it’s still obviously in his vocabulary so there’s got to be somewhere that he played something similar to this. If you’ve seen a similar phrase elsewhere in his playing, that’s good enough for me.

Thanks again, guys!

[Tom_Gilroy]

@joebegly

It’s interesting you both heard some extra slurs that I didn’t.

I’ll have to be honest and admit that I hadn’t heard the quick A# to B slide in the 1st measure until I saw @JBakerman’s version, but listening now I think I hear it too.

[lars]

This thread caused me to start working on this. Such a great song!

Do you have a tab for this part, @joebegly?

Eric Johnson - Trademark

Every cover on youtube is different, and Eric never seems to play the same thing twice live

Knowing this I might approach the next EJ song differently: find a live version (with a video!) and learn that version instead of going off the record

[joebegly]

Sure. I don’t know if this is rhythmically accurate but the pitches/positions/picking I’m pretty confident on because it feels really easy to play it (compared to the subject of this thread anyway).

[lars]

Thanks for this! I had the same notes, but I didn’t think he’d use the 21st fret and couldn’t make it fit. I don’t have a strat at hand, but this is certainly very comfortable on a 24 fret guitar

Rick Graham plays this for licklibrary but he doesn’t pick every note and does a position shift to end on the 13th fret on the G. Rick always sounds great, but I’m not hearing those pull-offs on the recording.

[joebegly]

@lars

Rick Graham plays this for licklibrary but he doesn’t pick every note and does a position shift to end on the 13th fret on the G. Rick always sounds great, but I’m not hearing those pull-offs on the recording.

From a conversation I had with Troy on here, my takeaway is that even though he uses pulloffs occasionally, he mostly picks everything. So when I figure out EJ parts these days, I first try to make it all fit the system picking everything. Anything that doesn’t work out, I’ll add a pulloff or slide to make it work out. This lick is a great candidate for that “pick everything” approach though. Plus, stepping back and just listening to it, it doesn’t sound like there are any slurs. In contrast, if you listen to the part that’s the subject of my thread, you can definitely hear some pulloffs/slides in places IMO.

[lars]

Saw in another thread that you ended up getting an EJ-related lesson. Did you have aha-moments with this lick?

I’m on my third re-fingering of this. I started out with what @Tom_Gilroy posted. I couldn’t get the middle part, starting with the slide, smooth.

For me it’s the left hand that’s most difficult, the finger re-use on these pentatonic licks is brutal.

[joebegly]

Hey @lars thanks for asking. That lesson didn’t really touch on this lick. I’d planned on it, but we went a different direction.

Peter focused more on the vibe or feel of EJ’s style with me. He advised me against the note-for-note approach I’ve been doing. His reasons made sense:

• Eric himself is an off-the-cuff player. What we hear on the recordings was a snapshot. Live, it’s a little/lot different each time
• According to Peter, much of what we on Ah Via and Venus Isle are lots of “comped” takes. This can make a note-for-note approach a fool’s errand, because sometimes the parts are stitched together in a way that makes recreating the final product extremely difficult, at best
• • I can definitely believe this and it could be one of the reasons a lot of his studio recordings are so beastly to tackle
• If you mess up during a note-for-note attempt (I happen to excel at this), it can cause a total train wreck. This can be mitigated if you have a bunch of licks you are solid on but are improvising through. A mess up there will often be just a one note flub, then you’re back to some other pattern you already know to get out of it.

It’s all a little hard for me to digest for lots of reasons. I’m classically trained, so note-for-note is sort of what I do. I’m also a classically trained composer, so I always feel like my creativity is at its best when I get just the right notes for a phrase. Even the rock stuff I play/write, it’s all done the same every time. I get the exact melody I want to hear, and any deviation I just don’t enjoy. That’s highly personal of course. I know many folks don’t even consider someone a decent musician if they can’t improvise, or they may tire of hearing the same solo. To each his own.

Also, and this is subjective, plenty of Eric’s live solos I don’t even care for to the same extent that I admire what was on his recordings. The lick in question of this entire thread is a great example. To me, its just a flat out perfect descending run. Change one note, it’s not as cool.

I wish I had a better answer for you I did get a lot out of the lesson and I’ve been working on some other aspects of the EJ style, so I haven’t even played this lick lately. If nothing else, it’s given me some good variety, and I will say it’s fun to not be constantly practicing something I just can’t quite get. I’m so close though!!! lol!

@lars

For me it’s the left hand that’s most difficult, the finger re-use on these pentatonic licks is brutal.

I’m with you. I think any combination of my transcription, Bakerman’s or Gilroy’s just doesn’t sit well under my fingers. And it’s always around that blasted transition between the 2 measures where I lose control. Bump it down about 5 - 10 bpm and it’s no problem. So, I dunno lol! Maybe I’ll just never be able to play that part.

[lars]

@joebegly

According to Peter, much of what we on Ah Via and Venus Isle are lots of “comped” takes. This can make a note-for-note approach a fool’s errand

That makes sense! I have to admit that once I’ve found a solo or lick I like I have tendency to turn into a dog with a bone, so knowing that this energy might be getting misdirected is very helpful

@joebegly

Also, and this is subjective, plenty of Eric’s live solos I don’t even care for to the same extent that I admire what was on his recordings.

I’m with you on this, but thankfully there are so many live solos floating around that I’m sure I can find a take that’s worth learning. This lick is also only a few seconds of a song that’s filled with (playable!) cool stuff. Definitely also want to avoid throwing the baby out with the bathwater!

Thanks for the long reply!