Eruption tapping but alternate picked

I was thinking the same thing. In general do you think legato sounds better than picked for fast phrases or is it case by case?

(btw the picked version above is amazing too!)

I tend to like all picked passages more in general so Iā€™d say case by case for me.

Iā€™m trying to figure out why in this case I like the legato better. Could it be some nostalgia combined with how many thousands of times Iā€™ve heard the original and thatā€™s just how I accept Eruption needs to sound?

Or maybe the whole section just has this smoothness (even the voice leading) that lends itself more naturally to legato?

But yeah that all picked Taranto version is scary.

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The attack of a picked note is what I dislike here.

As for picked or legato passages, I find it has more to do with what sound or feel youā€™re going for. Even the best alternate pickers canā€™t emulate the silky-smooth sounds of well-executed legato.

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And vice versa though. Itā€™s just different sounds for different textures. Vowels and consonants, in a sense.

Or similarly how sometimes you play with gain, sometimes you donā€™t, sometimes you play with lots of reverb and delay, sometimes dry.

Hearing something like a bluegrass burner or Tumeni Notes, or some of Paul Gilbertā€™s iconic riffs, hearing that all legato wouldnā€™t be ā€œbadā€ I donā€™t think, but certainly wouldnā€™t have the same oomph. Also if you check out Stephenā€™s other clips, original riffs and such, youā€™ll see he uses his (ridiculous) picking chops very musically and for very cool textures - those things would also sound kind of strange all legato.

And of course thereā€™s tons of amazing legato stuff out there that has that smooth flowing ā€œwash of notesā€ kind of sound that would be very interrupted by a pick attack on every note.

Just different types of expression imo. I like both.

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As if I donā€™t plug Rick Grahamā€™s playing enough, but heā€™s so good at both of the articulations. Iā€™m so used to extremes. People like Holdsworth/Satch who pick notes rarely and have great legato, but donā€™t have alternate picking chops (that Iā€™m aware of), then people like Di Meola at the other end of the spectrum that really think legato is inferior. Finding players with a great command of both is rare, at least among people we all grew up listening too. The newer instagram crowd definitely has tons of technical talent.

Iā€™m trying to think of players from the more ā€œclassicā€ era that were really good at both. I guess Vai and Gilbert, just off the top of my head.

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Gambaleā€™s approach (which is actually similar to Jimmy Brunoā€™s) is an interesting balance. Picking all/many notes but not alternate - for some reason (probably been articulated here on this forum before) the sweeps just donā€™t necessarily sound as aggressive as the alternate, at least, imo, by default.

Which I guess brings about an interesting Q as to whether shreddy alternate picking with a light touch is possible. It does seem most of the pure alternators are heavy handed.

Itā€™s interesting to note Allan picked probably a bit more than most realize, and way back in ancient times he really picked quite a lot (not super staccato alternate, of course). Check this out, especially towards the end of the solo:

Itā€™s also worth noting heā€™d only been playing for 11 years here.

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Seen it before, very cool. And Iā€™ve probably said this in another post but god damn the film editors from 0:35 - 0:45. He was really tearing it up and we getā€¦the bass player and drummer, followed by a rear side view of Allan. Why would anyone want to see his hands during that point???

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Devilā€™s advocate time, and let me preface this by saying Iā€™m not sure this is something Iā€™d agree with, myself, and if I did it would be a super low conviction view.

What does that say for ā€œEruptionā€ as a composition, when itā€™s so tied to a specific playing technique that executed another way thereā€™s a strong consensus that itā€™s less appealing, musically? Does this make Eruption more interesting as a previously-unheard technical exercise than as a piece of music?

I honestly donā€™t know how I feel. I think the picked version is cool as hell, but the machine-gun articulations here give it a very different here than the fluid cascade of notes weā€™re more familiar with. If Eddie had alternate picked the original, would people have cared to the same degree as they did when he two hand tapped it?

Iā€™m trying to get my head around this question, and I definitely donā€™t have an answer, myself.

EDIT - of course a complicating factor is in 1978, that kind of alternate picking would have been shocking to most rock players, too. :rofl:

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Although impressive, had Eruption been alternate picked its impact would have been far less.

People lost. Their. Minds. Trying to figure out how heā€™d done it. No internet, no videoā€¦just this other worldly sound that wasnā€™t an effect, with an octave range no one ever heard on guitar.

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I know I certainly did.

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sextuplets at what, 150+? with a repeated 1NPS element? yeah thatā€™s fucking scary right here, right now. :laughing:

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Yes Iā€™m gonna go out on a limb and say thatā€™s probably not possible lol! If we accepted swiping, fine. But pure clean 1nps at that tempoā€¦Iā€™ve never seen it.

Taranto was at about 120 bmp I think. Clean mixed escape at that speed is absolutely no joke, considering Tumeni Notes is around 105 bpm

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I think the other magical thing about EVHā€™s Eruption isā€¦you can get away with playing the tapping part even if youā€™re not that great of a player lol! And thatā€™s by no means a dis to Eddie. And I fully get that when no one knew how to do it or what exactly he was doing, that elevated it. But I bet it got people even more excited once they found out what was going on and that they could sort of slop their way through it. Huge props to him for popularizing it of course. His creativity and flare/personality are unmatched. Heā€™s probably Hendrixā€™s equal in making people want to play guitar.

But I always felt like other than the big open chords in the beginningā€¦the tapping was the easiest part of Eruption lol! Also that hyperspeed bluesy stuff he does in the beginningā€¦thatā€™s another matter I think.

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I just had a look at Filiipeā€™s Instagram and there is some scary wide stretchy licks and ideas. Very cool!

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I think itā€™s neat. He obviously has abnormally large hands and a lot of mobility, but he really understands how to maximise those natural advantages and heā€™s developing interesting vocabulary based on his unique affordances. Good for him.

I used to do that as a teenager. It always sounded ā€œwrongā€ and it felt like I was trying to hammer square pegs into round holes.

Rick is awesome.

I think the technical level overall is higher, but I also feel that itā€™s more homogeneous at the highest level. Thatā€™s not a dig at anybody, it just means weā€™re converging towards a relatively small number of strong movement solutions and seeing similar affordances and capabilities.

Frank is awesome. Iā€™d add that I think Yngwie and EJ both sound very smooth considering that they pick a lot of notes, too.

Yeah, and it was 50 years ago.

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So, this isnā€™t fair, because it was a queztion I asked in the spirit of devilā€™s advocacy, lol.

But, ā€œthe impact would have been far lessā€ if itā€™d been alternate picked, because people couldnā€™t figure out how heā€™d done itā€¦ that sort of implies no one believed he alternate picked it at the time because it was so beyond what anyone else was doing, and if lo and behold it HAD been alternate picked, would the impact have really been any less? I think @eric_divers followup post is pertinent here - weā€™re having a debate about which version sounds better but I think weā€™re all kind of bowled over someone figured out how to alternate pick something that people only thought was possible from tapping. Itā€™s wild.

I guess the lesson Iā€™m coming to here is that, and Iā€™m still feeling this out as a conclusion, that maybe technique and composition can to at least an extent be linked, and what you lose when you move from tapping o picking is the fluidity. And, that fluidity, coupled with the wide intervals and harmonic motion, is part of what really makes the tapped passages of Eruption work.

Just a hunch, though.

I believe it would have made a big impact, but not been nearly as sensational. Nor placed EVH as the guitar titan he is.

I applaud the technical prowess and ability needed to pull it off. Frighteningly goodā€¦and Iā€™m impressedā€¦but my mind has not been blown by the technique alone. It just isnā€™t. I donā€™t like the way it sounds as a piece of music.

As for Eddie - not only was the sound new - tapping was almost universally unknown. EVH didnā€™t invent the idea - but he took it somewhere no one had ever thought to go beforeā€¦and it was super-easy to emulate to boot.

To this day, alternate picking at that velocity remains laughably unreachable for all but the most committed. I mean - this is a website about picking technique - and weā€™re all impressed.

Yet the tapping section of Eruption can be learned by people that (literally) canā€™t play anything else. To the point that music stores ā€˜banā€™ it the way Stairway and Smoke On The Water are.

Just my opinion.

I know the discussion about the aesthetic qualities of the original clip is not meant to disparage Stephen Taranto, but for a few reasons I just want to add that yā€™all should check out his actual clips/music which are all very cool - I know nobody is saying they arenā€™t, but for anybody who hasnā€™t heard of him just want to make sure he gets some recognition beyond just ā€œGuy who did this crazy thing that I donā€™t like the sound ofā€

He plays some super exciting stuff - the chops are needed to pull it off, but I think the harmonic and musical content is pretty interesting.

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I havenā€™t dug deep but Iā€™ve seen several other clips of him. From what I recall it was some terrifying (and very cool sounding) playing.