Fractal FM3 Amps have a high frequency rasp

Gear
#1

All the mid to high gain amps I have tried in the Fractal FM3 have this strange sound in the higher frequencies. This seems to occur regardless of the IR I am using.
I have made sure that there is no global EQ settings that might cause this, and I am just using a simple signal chain (1 amp block, 1 cab block). I have also tried using a high-cut, which doesn’t seem to help much. I have even tried reinstalling the firmware (version 7.00)

I am playing through my Fishman Fluence Modern equipped 7 string schecter, into the instrument input 1, out of output 1 using XLR to TRS cables into my Mackie CR5X monitors.

I am new to the fractal world, so any help is greatly appriciated :slight_smile:

Thank you!

#2

The high cut and low cut in the cab block are your friends!! I used to have this problem and those were a big help. There are a couple of other tricks as well, but I can’t remember them off the top of my head.

I’m not at my computer to really get into detail but I made this preset and video and posted it on the Fractal forum the other day:

Choose the Basketweave Mix and the Cali 80s mix (Legacy) cabs, do the low cut at like 50 and the high cut at about 8k. If you still have the issue, post a preset and I’ll take a look.

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#3

Great, Thanks @DC11GTR

I’ll try sending over a preset when i’m at my computer :slight_smile:

I do wonder whether the issue I am having could be something to do with my monitors, as I seemed to have a similar sound occuring with my NDSP plugins especially on high gain presets. I was using the same speakers I was then as I am now

Thanks again!

#4

It may very well be the monitors. I didn’t exactly shop around but I read a ton and the Kali IN5s were perfect for me. They’re FRFR, as far as I know, and everything has sounded great through them, even chuggy stuff. I also don’t play very loud. I use them as I could a regular amp. From Fractal to speakers.

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#5

I sometimes like to crank up the volume a bit, so I wonder whether an FRFR cabinet (Like the Laney LFR-112 or Fender Tone master FR-12) would be better for playing at higher volumes - not gig level, but perhaps ‘move some air’ level :rofl: if thats even a thing

I have also noticed that in the past, when I have turned up the volume on my monitors, my tones seem to become less clear (i.e. harder to hear the notes, can become quite bassy) I guess it could be something to do with the fletcher-munson curve, or maybe just that monitors aren’t really meant to be ‘cranked’ :slight_smile:

#6

I debated a true FRFR cab, and even floor monitors, but I’d never need that high of volume. Before it was explained to me, I planned on getting 4 Bogner 1x12” cabs and surrounding myself with them lol I’d still like to do that someday but I have to wait for amp manufacturers to get on the FRFR train!! Maybe at NAMM this year….

There is a trick to getting an Amp In The Room thing. In fact, on a lot of my mail presets I have an AITR version of them. It’s obviously not perfect but it sounds great!

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#7

Is that where you use parametric and graphic EQs to EQ the flat speaker to sounds like a cab instead of using an IR?

#8

Yup. Cooper Carter did a video on it. Sounds best with chuggy riffs.

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#9

Here is a video of me playing through it (just recorded with my phone)

The forum wont let me upload the .syx file format, so here is a link to the fractal forum thread with the simple preset I made:

I tried a high and low cut (~80Hz and ~8000Hz) which didn’t seem to help. I also tried listening to it through my headphones (which I dont think are really meant for FRFR monitoring) but the strange high frequency noise was still there

Thanks for the help

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#10

I don’t have a Fractal, but I do have a Boss GT-1000 and I believe this advice would go for all modellers… Here’s a video explaining it better than I could!

Here’s another video about EQing your guitar

hopefully this will help.

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#11

I listened to your clip my man and it doesn’t sound bad at all. As far as “rasp” goes, are you referring to that pickup noise/hum? perhaps a noise gate if that bothers you?

I know that the modellers all have a pretty particular kind of a sound - kind of like listening to it miced from a control room as opposed to actual “amp to ears” sound and that perhaps might be what you are hearing? You know, the amp model, cab model, IR, plus the room model, the mic model etc might be introducing some frequency you aren’t used to and find distasteful? Also - the playback speakers might be a factor?

I had a Boss GT1000 that was fun to play through a L6 Powercab, and it was fine when recording direct also but I got to messing around with a microphone in front of the amp, and boy oh boy did I ever dislike THAT lol! I had an AxeFXII, and while it was awesome I basically had, like 4 presets I used so it was a horrendous waste for me! Plus, I am dense so programming things is not fun…

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#12

Thanks @Scottulus :slight_smile:

I don’t think it’s background noise picked up by the pickup - it sounded like a particular frequency (or frequencies) that were present throughout playing. Although listening back to the recording it doesn’t sound too bad… :rofl:

I have been discussing this on the fractal audio forum too, and someone suggested that it could be to do with the levels of the blocks in my signal chain (especially as my fishman pups are supposedly quite high output) and my input level. I’m going to try changing those paramaters next when I get the chance.

Thanks for the tips!

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#13

I tried out the preset and even my gainiest presets aren’t as loud without playing as this one. That’s not a bad thing, just that I’m ostensibly in perma-mute mode with it. I’m guessing that the “Master Volume” being at 10 was cause but the tone changed quite a bit when I’d lower it and it actually sounded better maxed. Also, I switched to my usual cabs and it seemed to settle it a bit. Is it as loud without playing for you? Or is that what the active pickups take care of?

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#14

If you turn your pickup volume way down, or try another guitar, is the sound still there? Are you clipping with those active pickups?

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#15

Not too sure, but i tried reducing the level of the blocks in the preset andd increasing the input pad and that seems like it might be helping. I’m going to play with it a bit more and see how it gets on :slight_smile:

It seems possible that this is what is happening - even on an empty signal chain, just listening to my DI there was a small amount of distortion if I picked hard with my bridge pickup. Then after adding drives and a gainy amp… I guess that could cause clipping!

There was a fair bit of background noise - I just though it was interference from the room I was in, but maybe not!

#16

The signal from your guitar enters your Fractal device and reaches a hardware analog-to-digital converter. It is critical that this converter never clips, because the values that it reads are fed to the software. The software, in turn, worries about distortion, compression, etc.

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#17

The first bit is your preset, the 2nd is my version of the VHT Pitbull and the last is my main Satch-inspired lead. The start of each one is volume knob on full and an overall MUTE. The rest is just random doodling. But you can see what I mean about the general noise and the differences in gain. The VHT is just the amp itself and the Satch’y one is with a drive in front of the lead channel of the amp.

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#18

Is there an easy way to tell if clipping is occuring? Can clipping occur in a specific block? Do you look at the levels of each block to determine this?

Yeah, I can hear that! Quite a big difference! It may be because I put on a high-shelf EQ in the input EQ if the amp block that added a lot of gain (I forgot to remove it before sharing the preset!)

On a side note - great playing in your audio clip! I also really liked the satriani lead tone you have dialed in

Thanks again :slight_smile:

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#19

maybe try and find a freq analysis plugin to run and see if you see any peaks in the high-end spectrum with those amps you are stating. Cutting above 8K usually gets rid of them in the cab block. Maybe add an EQ after the amp and just cut all the high-end and test by adding it back in at certains freqs to see where it lives.

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#20

That was honestly my first thought too, when I sawe your post, even before I saw this.

I’m still primarily a “real amp” guy, but I’ve played around with friends’ modeling setups a lot over the years and honestly some of the challenges to recording with modelers are awfulyl similar to recording with real amps. One of the big ones is what an amp sounds like “in the room” when you’re standing next to it and jamming, and what a mic “hears” when it’s 1/2" off the grill cover and maybe 1" to the side of a speaker cone, are VERY different things. Coming at it the other way, one of the big learning curves for me was learning to dial in a tone while listening at speaker level to make sure what I was getting out of the amp was really what I wanted to be hearing.

From the other standpoint, this could be as much “ear education” as anything else - a close mic’d amp sounds raspier on its own than the amp does when the speaker is 6’ below you and 10’ away.

That said, I had a friend track down a bunch of “amp in the room” IR packs somewhere, don’t remember if it was an existing pack or if he got someone to make him a few, that did a better job replicating the amp-in-the-room sound by creating an impulse based on a mic in a normal human listening position - that could be worth a try. But a lot of it is a recorded guitar just sounds different from an amp you’re standing in the same room as.

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