Fretting without the thumb to reduce tension

Playing Technique
#1

I frequently notice gripping tension when playing and am aware this is a common issue. @Tom_Gilroy has addressed various grips you can have on the guitar neck and which increase tension - but I came across this and was curious if anyone has practiced without letting the thumb touch the back of the neck?

I’ve been playing around with it, I already anchor the guitar to my body with my right elbow so that keeps the neck pretty much in place, seems to work well and I’m wondering if it can be used to systematically reduce tension in playing if done enough.

#2

Never thought to try that, but provided the guitar is stabilized somehow (like you mentioned) it seems viable, for some situations. After all, pianists don’t reinforce with their thumbs.

#3

I do this to practice sweeping, tho nowhere near as fast as you if thats your video.

I think it pulls the fingers in to the fretboard, and is ultimately just another feeling of practice. I’ve put things on my fingers to give that extra feel, anything that changes your feeling should make the brain adapt, standing on one leg for example. Try shredding on one leg, same thing, a different perspective. It makes the brain adapt. You can put things on your fingers to do it, I was gunna post about this, called my Chinese finger hats, but might not be kosher as it were.

#4

Not my video - wish it was though lmao that guy is getting props from Brandon Ellis and Jared Dines in the comments

As far as the other stuff - yeah sure, changing what you’re doing can break habits - but specifically I’m looking to get the thumb to disengage more. This is probably equivalent to the technique I’ve seen promoted a lot of pushing the string as lightly as possible to the fret and trying to remain concious of that as you play, but it seems a little cleaner because it’s harder to forget and grip to tightly because your thumb is just not touching the neck.

#5

I did post about this thumb lifting stuff before, but I can’t even find it.
It’s basically taking away your thumb (no shit) and bringing your fingers closer to the fretboard. Thats literally all it’s doing, any speed from that is because your fingers are literally closer to the frets. In my opinion…

#7

I’ve done some work like this. I imagine it could be valuable to help somebody who habitually engages the muscles of the thumb to counter pressure the back of the neck.

In my fretting postures the thumb acts more like a frame, passively providing counterpressure by aligning the bones and making use of structural strength. The thumb is also a super important tactile, proprioceptive and kinaesthetic reference point for maneuvering the fretting hand, and it’s ability to function in that role diminishes when overly tense.

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#8

Thats something I’ve wondered about, a thick neck vs thin, do you have any ideas on that? I found with drawing a small a pencil hurts my hand.

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#9

I don’t think one is better than the other, I think it’s very personal and come down to how your hand interacts with the neck.

I’ve heard a lot of people tell me they need a thick neck because they have large hands, but Vai and Gilbert have very large hands and played Ibanez guitars with very thin, flat necks for decades without issues.

It’s not the neck that’s comfortable or uncomfortable, it’s what you do with your hands that’s comfortable or uncomfortable.

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#10

So in general, speed of my fingers isn’t the issue for me, but tension is. My hand tensing up especially when performing long difficult pieces against a metronome or backing has always been an issue, but it’s slowly been improving. My Strandberg helps somewhat but it’s a systemic issue, I’m slowly trying to deprogram it by doing various things like being careful to lift away my fingers and playing slowly with low pressure.

I think another related issue is my synchronization could be better, luckily I think this sort of practice can be dual purpose for that as it requires slow, concentrated effort and dissecting parts of runs and sequences I seem to get caught up on. Usually the problem is I leave a finger anchored too long, so rather than swiping when I fail to escape properly, I hit the note twice - or I start tensing up progressively more, which ends up throwing off hand synchronization entirely.

#11

I like to play very light to loosen up.

I’m not sure if this is what you’re after but it helps me.
You’re far better than me cmcgee11235 So it might be nonsense. I do think I understand the body to an extent tho. Put a lot of effort into it.

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#12

Yeah I have hands that are on the smaller size and the Ibanez necks are super comfortable for me. Even Strat necks feel a little too beefy now that I’m used to the Ibanez. I have tried Jackson though and found their necks to be really comfortable, too, so I don’t think I need them to be super-wizard flat per se, but definitely on the slimmer side feels best to me.

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#13

ooo I just tried this, and my LH is strong enough to play pretty well - however, there’s this pressing into the neck by my hand to go along with my pick hand pressing into the body; So it’s an absolute no-no for me I think. Really exaggerates background tension.

#14

The Shamisen has a bit of fabric on your thumb n index finger.

Yubikake

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I’ve Tried this before on guitar even using a pick on the thumb to help the hand slide. I feel it does help n let you loosen up.

Could even put a sock on your thumb and it gives a different less friction feel that can help train a loose grip. Anything like that works.

#15

Do you ever try to fuck up your playing?

This video is a bit of mess of ideas, but acually messing up your playing with obstacles and putting stuff on your hands to give extra feel can open up extra moves like lifting a finger when you’ve programed it to stay. You’re giving the mind a different perspective

#16

I have a (bad!) habit of occasionally playing on the higher frets (above 12 fret) with my thumb sticking up on the finger side of the fret board. i.e. it’s just sitting completely out of the way while I’m fretting notes.

The habit comes about from when I was a learning and only had a classical guitar while trying to figure out Yngwie, Satriani etc licks. With the neck ending at the body at the 12th fret it was impossible to fret higher notes with the thumb behind the neck so I simply played with my hand hovering over the body while fretting the notes. Even though that was more than 35 years ago I still do it occasionally without realising. Freaks people out!

While the habit is pretty silly I have no issues fretting the notes and very occasionally I do it deliberately in order to fret a note or partial barre with the side of the thumb similar to the classic Jake E Lee trick: https://youtu.be/1ERf0G2HVWc?t=162

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#17

This is a great player, no question!

Opinion Part:

I’m skeptical about all these exercises to “reduce tension”. In my understanding, the only effective way to reduce tension is to find an easier way to do things, not to somehow force yourself to relax while you are doing something that feels difficult.

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#18

It’s less about reducing tension initially, and more putting your hand in positions that are abnormal for you, and adding extra sensory perception. (not esp lol) Giving you a new perspective/feel

That gives you extra feel and awareness of what you’re doing. And extra range to relax. It’s like the old idea of you’ll never know what blue is unless you experience it.

There are videos by Anat Baniel that show her putting children with special needs into positions that they won’t do by themselfs, and therefore have no experience and ability to acually make those moves by themselves.

The stuff troy talks about in terms of people who learn fast is very similar, people who do loads of random movements untill they find what works. Putting your hand in different positions or putting things on your hand is just another method to give the brain extra information to work with, and through that practice, extra control to loosen up and not get cramps in the hand. It’s ultimately just expanding your nervous systems range.

If you’ve played a certain way for decades (or a kid and thats all you’ve known), adding something to expand that range will help. Just like the mouse dpi thing, your brain has to adapt and recalibrate to get fine motor skill back. It’s stimulating the nervous system and giving it extra range to act in

“neurofeedback” is very similar too.

It’s also the same concept as starting with speed. Lets you feel what thats like even if you’re not getting every note.

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#19

I’d largely agree. I think the exception would be “background” tension. For example, tense shoulders. That can travel all the way down to the hands and even if we’re picking with a “good motion”, can build up fatigue over time. That’s a different scenario than what’s trying to get accomplished here in playing with no thumb on the neck. If a player experiences tension in their fretting hand and the source is excess squeezing, they’re likely “doing it wrong” or have a sub optimal setup. Trying to relax won’t fix it.

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#20

Quick reply on why I think this is horrible:

Most people keep the guitar’s plane relative to the body “fixed” using both arms, each arm having a push / pull component to it (fret hand pushes with thumb and pulls with fingers, pick hand has the torso pushing against the guitar’s body and pulls with forearm). Removing the fretting thumb (push) from the equation just means you’re going to need more picking hand “pull” (the forearm), which increases picking tension. This only gets worse if you have higher action / thicker strings.

In my opinion you’re training a motor pattern than you’d not use in actual playing, which would probably make you worse.

#21

Idk about that man, most musicians, and artists have a vast ammount of work that is not seen in order to zero in on the presentable product.

I fully believe in doing weird things to help you zero in on that goal.

A targeting system doesn’t lock untill it does.