From good to great? Is there anyone here who has gone from fast to 'shreddy Kruger'?

I was doing some practice last night and I wondered about this, and what others people’s experience has been?

To give some context, I was going through a simple tremolo etude (16 bar exercise) I started at 170bpm (comfortable starting speed once warmed up) and ended up at 185bpm. 190bpm was okay for about 6-8 bars, and only about 2 bars at 195bpm or above.

Is it realistic to expect a speed improvements beyond this point, or would it be more around endurance?

To use Teemu as a reference, there are sections where he is well above 200bpm (closer to 240bpm from what I can tell) which seems very out of reach by comparison.

“Speed” is not generally a good gauge of improvement. If you can’t move your hands at the target tempo to start with, then that’s a motion efficiency problem and it needs to be overcome immediately. This is why we start with the table tapping tests in the Primer.

To begin with, you’re looking for a tremolo motion that approaches the speed of your table tap tests. You need to find that first, because repeating inefficient motions doesn’t generally make them any faster — unless you subconsciously or accidentally switch to a more efficient motion at some point during that repetition. Most of the time, your fast/efficient motion will be what we call a “single escape” motion, either USX or DSX. Once you have that, you can move on to hand sync and phrases.

Phrases that use single escape joint motions have an almost flat speed/accuracy curve. For basic pure alternate type lines, like scale patterns, they can be played just about as fast as you can go with no substantial increase in difficulty. You can measure your “improvement” by accuracy, but even then, on simple patterns like the single-string Yngwie six-note phrase, you’re not really looking for a slow grinding increase in your accuracy over time. The six-note fragment can be pretty accurate from the start. It’s just about learning to do it on command completely automatically, and eventually, across different fretboard shapes and strings.


Awesome, thanks @Troy

I will be taking advantage of the new MIM feedback function once I rejoin, my only concern/issue is that using the table tap tests and translating that to playing is where I get stuck. Using the Flexion-Extension Tap Test (the one I’m fastest with) I get a smooth 230bpm no problem. But this particular motion doesn’t seem to have a practical application, as opposed to say the DiMeola motion which has detailed (and very clear) examples of how it’s performed on the guitar.

I’m not aware of hard science on this, but anecdotally, motions that look more like flexion-extension seem faster, especially the diagonal ones that aren’t exactly flexion-extension but close. To get them on a guitar, you just use a supinated Albert Lee / Steve Morse type arm position or a Molly Tuttle type arm position. Then you use a three-finger trailing edge grip, so you can have smooth attack again. This does not require special thumb joint flexibility like people sometimes imagine. You’re not bent all the way back in an uncomfortable way.

I’ve also occasionally unlocked a 240-250bpm motion with a more traditional index finger grip and a Molly Tuttle arm position. So I wouldn’t let the science (or lack thereof) deter you, because there are probably lots of wrist motions available. Now that you know what “fast” feels like on a table, just know that with some experimentation you can produce a similarly easy “tapping-style” feel on a guitar. You will know it’s right when it feels similar to the table test.

Finally, keep in mind that you don’t necessarily need to go 240 to have a usable motion. I never had that kind of speed before we started tooling around with this tapping stuff, and didn’t even know it was possible just unlock that if you weren’t one of these gifted types. Even a general form that seems to top out at “classic fast” is still plenty usable especially for mixed escape type lines. And whatever that form is, there is probably a “hyper fast” wrist motion that is similar enough to it that you can have that mode on tap for simpler but very fast lines when you need it.


Thanks Troy, much appreciated. It does indeed seem that my hand (even when doing the tapping style speed motion test) moves along a diagonal rather than just purely up and down.

I think for most people the 180 - 200bpm range is more than adequate. For us DM fans however, 240bpm has been a reference tempo since the early 90’s (Thanks Thrash metal!! haha)

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