Frustrated from the UK

Evening / morning six - string warriors,

Started my quest to become a “good enough” guitarist many years ago, & 23 years later, here I am at Cracking the Code. Great to see you all.

Anyone struggling with Chapter 2 - Building Speed? I didn’t know until I started working on it, that my pinky has almost no strength in it.

How does Troy get so accurate at high speed? Has anyone else made a “breakthrough”?

I’m picking up the guitar whenever I can, & seeing if I can get that 6-note pattern down, without double picking certain notes. Easy it ain’t!

3 Likes

Accents were a big part of this. There may be more to it, but it has been pointed out to me that for some of the fast pattern type examples we have filmed, the pickstroke that starts each repetition is visibly larger. So you can actually see that I’m accenting that initial note. In other words, it’s not just a “conceptual” accent, it’s a physical one. You should be able to see this in the slow motion clips themselves if you look closely.

There are probably lines I play that aren’t specifically or obviously accented, particularly if they are not repeating phrases. But there is always some kind of landmark in my mind. You can have a phrase that has unusual numbers of notes per string, but you can’t really ever get away from knowing exactly which pickstroke is used to start a string or play a certain note. If I start a phrase on the wrong pickstroke, even one that uses a crosspicking type movement where you think, aha, no pickslanting required, I will very likely mess it up unless I have actually practiced the phrase that starting on that pickstroke, to learn exactly where the subsequent pickstrokes will fall.

In general there is no free lunch with this stuff — these movements are either worked out (at some level) ahead of time, or they’re just not that clean.

5 Likes

Something that worked for me recently is changing the rhythm/accents in the phrase while keeping the speed the same.

E.g. if you are practicing a phrase at 6 notes per beat with 80bpm, try also 4 notes per beat at 120bpm. In both cases you will play 8notes per second, but you will probably put accents in different places and think of the phrase in a different way. Often for me one of the two options feels better than the other, so I practice it more and typically manage to play it faster and cleaner. It seems that by some magic also the other version of phrase will somehow improve!

I had stumbled upon this idea before, but never applied it systematically until I saw Troy mentioning it in the Mike Stern Fat Time lesson.

2 Likes

Thanks for sharing.

I do have a concern though. Don’t you think that arranging the same lick from sixes to fours (or the opposite) changes the way it sounds musically? An example for that would be descending pentatonic fours in the first position. You are repeating the same notes twice in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th strings but you can still create the “feel” of descending fours. But if you play it with six notes it would sound different and not as “symmetric” in my opinion.

Is this just in my head or is there really a difference for the listener? I know that that there is a difference when the listener is me. But I am a biased listener I guess :sweat_smile:

(sorry for using terms like symmetric and feel. I am trying to describe it in words that make sense to me, a guy who never studied music theory in an academic context)

Cheers \m/

2 Likes

Nono I fully agree with you, they are different! The final objective could be, for example, playing the lick you mention in 16ths. But while practicing, I found that trying the lick with different rhythm groupings (maybe 6s) can help me to figure out the correct mechanics or to get rid of bad habits (e.g. by disentangling accents from string changes and so on).

3 Likes

That’s it. I often find the displaced version feels a little smoother. Accenting in these different places may provide a more equal opportunity for all the movements to be accurate, not just the first one.

2 Likes

Cheers Hanky, oh I am driven. I put the guitar down so many times in life, & I always pick it back up!

Thanks for the welcome!

1 Like

Thanks for the info guys, & I’ve got a lot to get through. I’ll break everything down that you’ve said & try & apply it as I go.

And @Troy, I can’t thank you & your team enough for what you’ve done here for all guitarists! It’s crazy that we were all in our bedrooms (or dorms!) across the world, & year’s later, you brought us here- :slight_smile:

1 Like

Are 6 note chunks 4/4? I’m having a hard time staying in 4/4 on the metronome.

I’d say they’re 3/4 @Hanky_Pooh. Can you put four into 3?! If so, great!

1 Like

I’m now on 60% speed, with the video.

Greetings! I’m new to the forum but not new to CTC. I would say that I have been working on lead playing for about 10 years now. Not that I didn’t play lead in bands, etc, but I have intently worked on my lead playing, taking lessons from the likes of Greg Howe and Bruce Bouillet, and searching YouTube, etc.

I have found that frustration is a good thing. It means you are digging, searching, and striving for greatness. We all have greatness in us! You just have to find the key to unluck it. It seems we all strive for the end result or breakthrough, and I’m surely guilty of this, but what is more important is the journey itself. I have been working on a particular Doug Aldrich lick, which he says he was influenced by Gary Moore, for about 6 years now. Six long years of struggling and striving for just one lick.

It’s at about 2:35!

After all of this time, I can play it on a good day 100-110 bpm. He is playing it at about 120-130 in the video I think. Can you imagine? Six long years and I still can’t play it at that speed without loosing my timing or sloppiness. But I have seen improvement along the way. Where I once would start at 60 bpm on the metronome and work my way up, I know start at 90 bpm on some days. Most days I start at 80 bpm.

There is a couple of Eric Johnson lick that Troy does (I can’t remember which video it is in) that I have been working on since the last time I was a member of CTC. At first it was slow going because there is a lot of movement. As of late, I have gotten it much faster, but still not at the speed that Troy plays them.

I can only speak for myself, but logging in the hours, working on technique at slow speeds and gradually picking up the pace, is what sets us apart from the average. And remember, this is as much athletic, as it is intellectual. In other words, it takes brains, as well as brawn! And there is a psychological aspect that you have to throw in the mix. There is so much beneath the surface of being a great lead guitar player.

And if you are like me, you have to overcome injuries on top of that. I’m a right handed guitar player. About 20 years ago, I fell on my left side, breaking three ribs and hitting my elbow on a concrete sidewalk, damaging the Ulnar nerve, which controls the ring and pinkie fingers. Then, to compound it even more, three years ago I completely tore the bicep tendon off of the radius bone of my right arm. It was surgically repaired and good as new. I played two gigs with a torn bicep, and five weeks after surgery, I played another gig. In both injuries, I had to overcome numbness in my arms and fingers. Fear of never playing again was never an option!

Through all of this, here is what I know: guitarists such as Eric Johnson or Yngwie Malmstein, or even Troy (and this is not meant to be an offensive statement) are just men, like you and me. The fact that they are at the level of playing that you and I desire means only one thing! The have logged in 1000s of hours, probably tens of thousands, of hard work, practice, ear training, developing technique, etc.

I’m 56 years old! I’ve played guitar for almost 40 years. I’ve been to Musician’s Institute for a year. But the most valuable thing that has improved my playing is sitting down with a metronome and hashing it out. The only battle you and I have is with ourselves. And since in practice you are not trying to impress anyone like on stage, practice at slow speeds and focus on technique, playing cleanly and with authority. This teaches your brain to play things correctly. Speed will come! And as Troy says, use “chunking”…it works!

OK, enough for now! Good luck!

3 Likes

Thanks for the encouragement @jzdunegan. My mentality was, that cracking the code would be “the answer”, & what I didn’t see is that lead playing is a mixed bag of techniques. CTC has got all of us a lot closer, but we still have to walk through the door.

I just pick up the guitar whenever I’m going past it, play the lick & try & accelerate while focusing on the first note. Does sitting down with a metronome work for you? I have a hard time getting inspired with it…

And yes, not heard of Doug before but he’s a great technician. I once met Gary Moore in a car park, at Reading Motorway Services. Random!

Thanks so much for your reply…

1 Like

I have to be honest! Though not very inspiring, and in the past I hated working with a metronome, it does help tremendously! It is tedious and boring sometimes. But that is where the rubber meets the road. I have been working on pick slanting for a while now. It really works. Troy’s discovery is revolutionary for guitar players. I am a “fly by the seat of my pants” lead guitar player. What I mean is that I am mostly an improvising lead player. I don’t sit down and learn other guitar player’s leads in songs. What really helped me was back in 2008 I recorded a demo of 10 songs I co-wrote with a friend of mine. When I started tracking the leads, I would break down the lead section into 4 bar groups. I would literally write the solo per every 4 bar section. I would try different ideas until I found something that sounded cool to me and then I would record it over and over again until I exhausted every avenue and determined what was the best take.

Here is one of the songs I demo’d. Go to about 2:40 and listen to the solo. It’s rough but I wanted you to hear what I did. Keep in mind that this was 9 years ago and I was just beginning my lead playing journey and learning how to record at home! But I used my 4 bar method and wrote each 4 bar phrase to fit the style of the song as I interpreted it.

To this day, I still smile when I hear this solo because it is me and my style and not trying to clone someone else. It inspired me to want to become much better as a lead guitar player. These days, I log in about 5-8 hours of practice on days when I’m not working. I still haven’t gotten that golden aha moment of breakthrough that I so desire, but I know it’s just around the corner!

3 Likes

Great song! Is the title a message?! There’s nothing like an Asus2 chord either, love it.

5 - 8 hours, man. I’ve never been a practise - er, I think I’ve done it twice in my life. I usually just transcribe solo’s by ear, & write them out & try to learn them.

I’ve got to build a whole new set of habits, if I want to be the guitarist of my visions. So much to do, but i’ve got to start somewhere.

Is the title a message? I didn’t think about it when I posted it, but yeah, I guess it is. A little history of the song. I started dabbling with the guitar riff back in 1992 when I was just graduating Musician’s Institute (GIT) and had just joined a metal band in my hometown of Dallas, TX called Ruff Justice. I originally auditioned as the lead singer but I just couldn’t hit those high notes they wanted, but they liked my guitar playing and of course my “look”.

Here’s a video of Ruff Justice back in '92 playing a cool metal original "Give 'Em Hell! I’m the guitar player on the right with the skull jacket, big curly brunette hair, and the Ibenez Universe 7 string:

Anyway, as I was saying, I had been toying around with the riff and played it for my bandmates. Everyone thought it was cool except the other guitar player. It was a kind of band where the drummer and guitar player were the “owner” of the band and I was just a hired gun, though I never got paid. So, we never worked the riff into a complete song. Through the years, I worked on it, and in '95 I lived in a 2 bedroom duplex and turned the master bedroom into a rehearsal studio. We gathered a bunch of carpet pad and covered the room top to bottom to where you could barely hear anything outside. My stepbrother was a young drummer and had just got a new drum set - a Pearl high end set with double kick and everything. He was quite good and I never new he could play the drums. So we started writing songs, including what turned out to be “No More Excuses” as far as the music goes. We didn’t have a singer but we found an incredible bass player and we just jammed all the time.

As things go, we all went our separate ways but the songs we wrote stuck with me.

Back in 2007, after a few years of learning how to record with a computer, I started recording guitar riffs and putting drum loops down, brainstorming on song ideas. I would post those ideas on MySpace and lo and behold, a singer from British Columbia contacted me and said he loved those ideas. We IM’d frequently and then began talking on the phone. Then one of the greatest experiences I have ever had as a musician and aspiring song writer happened. He flew down to Dallas and stayed two weeks with me and we spent 10 of those days collaborating on the song ideas and turned them into full songs, which included Ho More Excuses. We would first put all the elements of the song into place - you know - Intro, verses, prechorus, chorus, solo section, outro, etc! I tracked the guitars and bass, implemented drum loops for each section and later drum fills and guitar solos. It would take all day just to do all of this. Later that night, he would put the track on an mp3 player and write the lyrics for the song. The next morning, we would track the vocals and move on to another song. We did this for 10 straight days. It was awe-inspiring!

When I look back at that time, it was the beginning of my quest to become a great guitar player. I think I’m a good lead player and have a lot of work ahead of me, but greatness is what I long for. I want to be able to play what I constantly hear in my head. Like I said before, I do have some limitations from my injuries but I am determined not to let them stop me from what I know I can do.

We must have limitation-killing determination. It is not in me to give up. I don’t even let the word “can’t” come out of my mouth anymore. I may not be able to play something I truly desire, yet, but I believe with all that is in me that I will. And you will , too! Remember, “NO MORE EXCUSES”! and “NEVER QUIT, NEVER SURRENDER, AND NEVER GIVE UP”!

Joseph

2 Likes

Thanks for your post Jo,

Sounds great; do you still have the jacket?!

I’ve had a similar songwriting experience, with a guy I went to music college, here in the UK, with. He’s a piano player, & there seems to be so many more chordal possibilities from them.

He emigrated to California about 12 years ago, & is doing really well. It’s great when you get that chemistry; Lennon & McCartney never had a “dry” session, they always wrote something.

As for injuries, my ulner on my left has sporadic feeling in it. Maybe, I’ll just have to stop leaning on it. It might have hampered my l/h speed.

I can only admire your enthusiasm. Especially as I think; “I’m 37, it’s time to grow up & admit it didn’t “happen” & I won’t be insert musical idoll here”.

I’m back, after a long absence. This picking malarkey is not going to beat me.

Re-evaluating all aspects. Figured my hand wasn’t supinated enough, & therefore tension in the wrist. Also, experimenting with pick angles. There’s been a noticeable improvement, but we’re talking such small changes; I never would’ve seen it, had I not pressed my nose to the screen & then tried to reproduce exactly what’s going on, mechanically!

It’s exhausting, but worth it when there’s an “aha” moment.

2 Likes

Sorry to resurrect an old topic, I just wanted opinions. Weren’t not short of those as guitarists!

I’ve been working on the 6 - note pattern, on & off, for 13 months. It’s at 130bpm, & I can’t play it any quicker than 110bpm. I’m only aiming for that speed, because it sounds awesome, not because I’m competing in an athletic tournament.

Should I just move on with the rest of the Primer, rather than continuing to slam my head (and fingers) into the proverbial brick wall?

All the shitty emotions that come up with not being able to do what other’s can, are ruining my love for the guitar. I’m 38, & probably should be beyond those, but I’m stubborn & I don’t want to admit “defeat”; whatever that means!

Thanks for your time.

Is this true because it’s the start of a chunk? I have noticed that I without some kind of difference in physical movement I get “lost” about what I’m playing at a given metronome click, perhaps this is a universal thing, I don’t know…

Yes, exactly. In other words, when you’re trying to synchronize the hands, you’re not just playing individual notes any more. You’re memorizing a sequence of motions as a single motor program, so that becomes the minimum unit of motion you can make. In my case at least it appears I actually make a physically distinct motion at the start of the chunk to enhance the process. Whether this is strictly necessary or not I don’t know.