Good "field test" for pick escape

Teacher's Lounge
#1

While talking about picking challenges on another forum, where “seeing” what a player was doing isn’t really an option, it occured to me that a great way to test a players primary escape is simply to take a single looping phrase, and arrange it for DSX and USX simply by changing the position shift.

I.e:

  d u d u d u d  u d u d u
|---------------------------|
|---------------------------|
|-------5-7-9-10-9-7--------|
|-5-7-9--------------10-9-7-|
|---------------------------|
|---------------------------|


  d u d u  d u d  u d u d u
|---------------------------|
|---------------------------|
|----------7-9-10-9-7-5-----|
|-5-7-9-10--------------9-7-|
|---------------------------|
|---------------------------|

Ignore the weirditalics and colors there, not sure what’s up with that…

…but, the first pattern is a 3nps loop where you shift it up one position before descending, and mechanically flows a lot like the Gilbert 6’s for the picking hand. If you’re a DSX player, this will feel pretty natural.

The second pattern is the exact same notes, but with a position shift on the first string, if you loop this all of your string changes happen after upstrokes.

If you have a primary escape, one of these should feel a lot more fluid than the other, and it seems like this is a very efficient way to test in a situation where you can’t actually see what someone’s doing.

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#2

Great idea/example!

My only peanut gallery type of comment is that ease of shifting is better on the DSX example. I know we all should be able to shift on any part of the beat (just like we should be able to play starting on an upstroke or downstroke lol), but I think the reality is that for most folks it feels a little easier to shift on the beat.

This might be a better litmus test for USX only because someone may have that as their default escape but get tripped up on the shift:

|-------------5-7-8-5-7-8-|-10-8-7-10-8-7---------------|
|-5-7-8-5-7-8-------------|---------------10-8-7-10-8-7-|

That keeps the same sextuplet feel as the DSX example but allows shifting right on the beat

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#3

Great suggestion, I’ll try that tonight!

And yeah, I was definitely posting this as an idea looking for feedack, because there are some really, really thoughtful people here - thanks for chiming in and giving me a few more ideas!

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#4

So a lot of this will depend on what note grouping is implied in the examples. For sixes, I’m not sure in his two examples that matters as much since the down beat in both always happens on a down stroke. The string shift isn’t as crucial for beat emphasis. For 4’s both can get funky mostly due to the sideways slide shift and needs more attention to the downbeat emphasis.

What really may trip people up when adapting phrases is adding pull offs to some of these examples to facilitate USX string changes, particularly even and odd note string groupings because you no longer are guaranteed to hit down beats on down strokes, so it becomes difficult sometimes to really emphasize particular groupings like metronomic 4’s for example on some passages (may sound like your are sneaking triplets in) because you may not be able to emphasize down beats of the grouping as strongly depending on the phrase and notes per string.

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#5

In my opinion, if you really want to test for single escape motions you may have to go down to 2 notes per string. With more than 2 you may easily get away with “helper motions” etc.!

However, there is then the problem that 2nps stuff is usually a bit harder to pull off (pun not intended!) — so it may not be a viable test for beginners.

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#6

That’s a pretty good point. I put a decent amount of time into learning a USX motion “because, ya know…Eric Johnson”. Something still always felt a little “off” about it though. Several months ago I magnet filmed some contrived shapes that change strings after upstrokes.

To me, it’s clear on tremolo only (around 0:18) that I can generate a wrist/forearm blend where it’s continuous USX, but in the parts where there are fretted notes…a motion much more like what I did pre-CtC takes over. And that’s a DSX motion, or possibly even trapped. But I think I’m getting clean upstroke escapes, and this is via helper motion. If you watch my thumb heel, right before the string changes you’ll see it pull away slightly to clear the string. I think this motion would be a no-go for USX 2nps. While I’ve never heard it openly stated, I suspect helper motions are slightly inefficient (as compared to strict single escape) and that’s why we can only get away with them occasionally. Once every 4 or 6 notes, fine. Doing a helper motion “every other note” just seems like madness though lol!

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#7

Wow! The tremolo at 18 seconds looks really good! Really reminds me of the floppy-ness I get from my fingers when doing it and @qwertygitarr who does it way better :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

I think you’re really nearly onto something there!

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#8

Thank you! He has the most beautiful forearm rotation ever I think. Pretty sure yours looks just about the same as his too :wink:

I’ve sort of struggled with keeping that motion going (while introducing fretting) for a while now. I’d say possibly…long enough that it’s probably an indicator I should spend more time on what comes natural. The DBX and RDT motions I’ve worked on more recently feel much more automatic, so a big part of me is tempted to hang up USX. I’ve even decided to call it Ultra Suck Escape just to make myself feel better lol

It’s a little frustrating though because that raw USX tremolo I can get going crazy fast and it feels so relaxed and floppy/effortless. As soon as I start fretting though…it just vanishes and turns into what I know. I equate it to trying to comb your hair while brushing your teeth. One hand pulls the other away from what you want it to do.

I think I had some moderate success doing a progression where I’d slide a tremolo around, then move into more “melody” type playing, then finally “double picking”, that way I’d be giving the fretting hand “something to do” while I could watch that picking hand and make sure it stayed the course. But again…it’s just SO much freaking work and concentration. This stuff is supposed to be easy. I’ve even messed with DSX-ifying some EJ patterns and the results were near immediate. And that, for the record, is exactly what Troy recommends people do. Guitar is just a hobby for me though and I do enjoy the challenge of learning new motions. It’s things like this that just make me feel more torn lol

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#9

It’s interesting because I’m struggling with something similar in my own playing - turns out one of the big hangups for me is I’ve been string-tracking by shifting my whole arm around, kind of moving it as part of a pickstroke in a scooping movement, rather than the much-more-cntrollable wrist deflection approach that it seems like most players naturally gravitate to. And, I can do it like a CHAMP with a simple alternating octave pattern or aomething, but as soon as I try to do something more complicated with my fretting hhand, then all that effortless deviation goes out the window and the best I can consistently do without consciously forcing my arm not to move (so far!) is sort of a hybrid of the two which to be fair is still a lot cleaner and more efficient than what I was doing even a few weeks ago.

It’s like as soon as you start having to put ANY mental energy at all into your fretting hand, your picking hand starts remembering bad habits… I think the answer here is to just do a lot of simple arpeggio work and gradually add in a few notes here and slowly work up the complexity, and re-burn-in new habits, but it’ll probably take longer than I’d hoped.

But, like, still… audible progress in a week or two isn’t nothing, either. :+1:

Great discussion here!

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