Have I reached my maximum speed?

Playing Technique
#1

Hi everyone !

I’ve been playing for about 2 years and I have discovered Cracking the Code about a year and a half ago, which has helped me quite a lot in my quest for building speed.

I improved a lot since then, but now I feel like I hit a plateau at around 200 BPM.
Whenever I try to pick faster than that, even on a single note, I start to get tense and use my arm, and it doesn’t work.

Do you think that I reached my maximum possible speed ? Or maybe it has something to do with economy of motion ?
And if I did reach my maximum speed, is it something that I can improve over time ?

Thanks !

#2

Well, it IS possible you did. But, only time will tell.

When I go past 200 BPM I use my arm. Is there some tension? Sure.

When you say, “it doesn’t work”, what exactly doesn’t work? Hand synchronization? Hitting notes with clarity?

Even if 200 BPM is your top speed, that’s a pretty damn good top speed to have. Most people can’t do that.

Yes, you can absolutely improve what you play over time even if 200 BPM is your top speed.

Personally, I don’t try and get faster anymore. I try and get more accurate. Certain things I do have a speed goal of reaching, but I’m not trying to exceed my fastest playing anymore.

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#3

Hi ! Thanks for your reply !

I think I should I have clarified that I was referring to 200 BPM 16th notes, which is not really that fast, because a lot of people seem to be able to at least tremolo pick at that speed (according to the Cracking the code poll) , but I can’t do it, especially not for a long period of time!

When I say that it doesn’t work, I mean that I lose control over my picking hand, dynamics, etc… And it sounds bad.

I mostly practice accuracy too (although I must admit that I didn’t practice much in the last few months), but I would love to be able to reach that kind of speed, because that’s apparently where a lot of Paul Gilbert and Yngwie licks sit.

#4

I really wouldn’t put a lot of stock in that. A lot of people (including myself at one point at least) think they are faster than they really are. Even when you look at the poll, I believe 180 BPM is about the average fast picking pace. So, 200 BPM is a bit above the curve.

I believe @troy pointed out to someone else in response to a comment made on that poll that Batio tends to play a great deal of things around 190 BPM.

200 BPM with 16th notes is pretty damn fast.

Also, at that speed, it certainly DOES become challenging to maintain a lot of accuracy. The faster you go, the harder it is to stay accurate. Certain things may not even be playable at that speed.

How long have you been playing at 200 BPM? How long have you been working on improving your speed?

One thing I notice with students is they have their expectations set too high. So, I’m curious what your background is, if you’d be willing to share.

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Increasing the speed of tremolo picking - please send help
#5

I would say that I started working seriously on speed and technique about a year and a half ago. I started out with basic 6 note patterns, ascending and descending fours on one string, even some chromatic exercises, to improve my synchronisation.

I also practiced the Yngwie Trilogy lick quite a bit (I would often practice it over 1h a day during the summer break, i’m 16), until I finally got it at a decent speed and accuracy. (160 BPM at that time)

But I kept practicing those types of licks because I really wanted to get it at the Yngwie speed (especially the fours), so after several months of working on it I got close to 200 BPM as my top speed.
Also during those months I changed my picking style from anchored to floating, which helped a lot in my opinion.

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#6

Sounds like you’re being too hard on yourself.

You’re only 16 and have been focused on speed for not even 2 years. That’s… not a lot of time! Seriously, you’re doing quite well! Do you have any idea how many adults WISH they could hit 200 BPM just once? A LOT!!!

I’m very big on metronome practice (done correctly of course), and it’s helped my students tremendously. This is how I built my speed, and how I continue to improve accuracy and learn new pieces of music that are challenging for me.

I strongly believe if you remain diligent, keep hitting that metronome practice to keep pushing your speed, you WILL get faster. It may take you longer than you’d like, but just don’t quit. Stay consistent. Stay persistent. You WILL improve!

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#7

You might be losing the point of musicality. I personally have a hard time trying to find out licks at 200 bpm in 16ths that are played live with consistency and that are enjoyable… I know It’s doable but I’m skeptical… Speed is a trap my friend I practise and work for speed but don’t lose the music in the speed… If you can play cleanly at those speeds Start working on other areas ASAP. OF COURSE MANTAIN YOUR CHOPS… but work on other things too

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#8

This is interesting! I can’t go past 190ish (16ths) with the elbow, and at those speeds it gets really tense and tiring (I’ve been an upws guy until discovering our saviour Troy). Instead I am now experimenting with dwps and the forearm rotation and I can get to 200 or a bit more for short periods (it is also tiring, but it feels like / I hope I will be able to improve the situation with some practice). Will post some evidence in a bit.

Beyond 200 I think we are entering the realm of sport science :wink:

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#9

Yup! This is why I relate so much of shred guitar playing to weight training. Very similar approaches with very similar principles.

#10

Thanks everyone ! I’ll keep practicing as much as I can, and hopefully I’ll get closer to my goals.

I’ll probably upload some videos so I can get your advice on my picking mechanics/accuracy, which I’m still trying to improve too (Trying to find a sweet spot between Forearm rotation, deviation and finger movement).

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#11

My god… 200 bpm with 16th notes? That’s like 13 notes per second! :open_mouth:
I think I can do 200 bpm at quarter notes, possibly 8th notes :wink:

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#12

Dude, I’m not trying to be rude, but I think you need a little reality check! 16ths at 200bpm is plenty fast! (I’m talking clean scaler lines etc., not tremolo picking). As previous posts have said, those that reach that level are definitely in the minority - if it was easy, there would be no need for CTC! That being said, there are some that have pushed beyond that and that is fine, but musically speaking (in my opinion), that sort of speed often lacks musical merit if over-used. It sounds like you are in the same trap as most of us are (or have been in at sone point), where notches on the metronome are the only thing that matters. The thing about shred is that it often feels greater to the player than it does to the listener. Don’t get me wrong, I love shred and I commend you for setting high goals, but it sounds like you are well on your way - enjoy your progress so far! Your plateau is my end goal!

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#13

Yeah, this, lol. If you’re playing 16th note scale runs at 200bpm cleanly, then, well, you’re faster than me, and I’ve got 20 years on you, lol.

That’s fast enough that I’d worry less about speed (assuming you’re clean), and more about finding something musically interesting to do with that speed.

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#14

After I read through this post the other day, I went home and set the metronome at 200bpm…dude, if you’re playing scale runs at 200 bpm then that’s amazing! I can’t even begin to approach that speed. Even just alternate picking one note at that speed is out of my comfort zone.

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