Hi @DimVas, you’re welcome.
I’m glad I could help.
EDIT: I wish I’d thought to move the ironing board before taking those pictures…
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Haha!! Just noticed 
actually I kinda like it thanx again, you’ve been a great help!!
So, I got a response notification on the commute in to work and had to wait until I could get home and pick up a guitar to actually check my recollection. And for me at least, I get a sharper, crisper attack for both hammer-ons and pull-offs with just the tips of my fingers than the pads. Thre may be some human anatomy differences here, and it totally makes sense why a little more “grip” from the pads would help with the pull-off, but on the other side of the coid I think the relatively firmer skin on your fingertips gives a cleaner release, which makes for a sharper, clearer, crisper attack.
All tat said - Tom Gilroy just wrote a book here that, scanning it at least, seems to advocate for the opposite approach (though they may not be opposites - tone and speed may be best served by different approaches), so I’m going to go open a beer and sit down and watch his videos and read what he has to say in case there’s something I’m overlooking here 
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Hi @Drew.
I am not advocating fretting with the pads over fretting with the finger tips or vice versa. I think that both are valid and I am comfortable with both of the postures I describe above.
The only exception would be fretting with the tip of the index finger, which I feel has significant disadvantages when playing legato, and no advantages that I can see. Of course, fretting with the tip of the index finger has advantages in other contexts.
Yeah - on closer read that’s more about hand position than it is fingertip position - my bad! Serves me right for scanning.
I’m a tad frustrated by what feels like slow progress developing my hammers and pulls, I just feel like I’m not getting the unplugged volume I should be, so it isn’t TERRIBLE when plugged in, but it is a massive volume drop from picked notes.
Probably just need to spend more time at dead slow tempos, and I guess some of the things I’ve learned from CTC have spoiled me in terms of how quickly I can expect to improve a given technique.
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Hi @Prigmnr.
I wrote this above:
It is crucial to understand that there is a point beyond which hammering a note harder doesn’t really make the note any louder. Instead, the extra force results in the note bending slightly sharp, or results in noise from any other strings that are not damped. Therefore, there is a maximum volume we can generate with a hammer.
The maximum volume of a hammer is below that possible from a pull-off, which is in turn lower than the maximum volume possible a picked note. The level of our hammers is then the limiting factor in legato volume, and we must learn to match the level of our picked notes and pull-offs (which we refine into the lift-off) to the level of our hammers if we intend to optimize the legato sound.
If you pick hard, your picked notes might be much louder than what is actually achievable with hammers and pull-offs. If you want to achieve a more legato sound, you need to identify the volume ceiling for hammers and learn to match your picked notes to that level.
If you’re near the volume ceiling already and the lack of unplugged volume bothers you when playing an acoustic guitar, there really isn’t much that can be done about it.
If instead, the lack of volume is bothering you when you’re playing an electric guitar unplugged, I wouldn’t worry too much. If what you’re playing sounds good when you’re amplified, that’s all that matters. I think spending too much time practicing unplugged encourages heavy-handedness and hampers development of damping technique.
You should aim to be able to play legato at a consistent volume level through a clean amp.
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Some Holdsworth fans refer to this as a “lift off,” and it regularly is confused with the descending hammer in discussion.
+1 on the “lift off” as being a third approach. Somewhere between my “pull off” and the “lift off” is something I think of as the “brush off.”
With a wobbly string in motion, I’d be curious to see high speed cameras on what @Tom_Gilroy’s suggested regarding damping.
In tapping practice I think about the difference between the tip of my finger landing on a string to fret it versus how a drum stick head bounces on a vibrating snare drum.
I like an action on my guitars where I don’t have to exert much effort to keep the string in motion, while keeping enough height to help the tone. When the action gets to a certain height I can still play all-hammered, but it’s about as much fun as trying to run fast through water. Quick height adjustment and it becomes effortless again. Peace.
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Very late to the party here. Allan was not all hammer-on legato despite some ‘authorities’ stating it as fact.
In the 1984 issue of “Guitar for the Practicing Musician” there’s a LENGTHY Holdsworth technique article that discusses how he executes lines. It’s probably the best discussion of how he did things in print I know of.
PIcking, hammer-ons and LIFT OFFs - not pull-offs. there’s a subtle distinction. Holdsworth disliked the pitch fluctuation (he called it the cats meow sound) that occurred during pull-offs and devised a variation: a lift off vertically directly above the note he wanted to enunciate. It works and that’s what he used.
His ultimate goal was to make picked, hammered and lifted notes ultimately have the same volume/attack so you couldn’t tell what he was doing. Which he was a master at.
I’ve used this for years now. example: https://soundcloud.com/aliensporebomb/sevenish
We saw some backlash against this approach from proponents of “pure only hammer-on legato” which can be traced to Marshall Harrison and his adherents but it’s not what Holdsworth himself actually used.
That being said, for some lines the hammer-on only approach can be useful.
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Totally agree with you on Harrison being obsessed with this. If I am honest, I dislike the sound of all-hammers approach if it is used exclusively - it makes me queasy and I find that a lot of players that do this tend to be less dynamic. It sounds very piano-like which is great in small bursts (think Satch’s Mysical Potato Head Groove thing). I love the sound of a good pull-off (insert rude joke here?), and you can add vary the amount of ‘twang’ used (more to add emphasis and less for a smoother tone).
Despite the above, I try and do all hammer-ons as part of legato practice as it puts your fretting hand under complete scrutiny and improves my usual legato style.
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Hi @aliensporebomb.
I’ve read most of the interviews with Allan that have appeared in print or online, including the one you’ve mentioned.
While the interviews are certainly helpful, I don’t think anything Allan has said regarding his technique should be taken as gospel, for several reasons.
As we’ve seen in CTC interviews, few players have a thorough understanding of their playing mechanics, and there are usually discrepancies between what a player is doing and what they think or feel they are doing. For example, Allan once mentioned in an interview that he didn’t use sweep picking, though I have noticed many examples of him using sweep picking in his playing.
Most of the interviews where Allan discussed technique were conducted in the early to mid '80s, while Allan’s technique and his playing in general continued to develop beyond that point, as incomprehensible as that is.
Allan, despite his genius, was not a good teacher or expositor. While the article you mentioned is indeed lengthy, the section where he discusses the “lift-off” is brief, and not particularly instructive.
Unfortunately, Allan is no longer with us and those of us who wish to analyse his playing have to make do with the video recordings we have available to us. From my own study, it seems to me that Allan utilized picking, ascending and descending hammers, “lift-offs” and occasionally conventional pull-offs also, depending on context.
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I discovered Harrison’s work after running into people making money online stating that one has to do things that run counter to what Holdsworth’s on record striving for. I was very grateful for it. Harrison’s biggest gripe so far as I could tell, was with folks referring to anything involving hammers and pull-offs as legato. Legato refers to connected sound and is analyzed in detail by for example, classical pianists. It is also a common term used by guitarists to refer to hammer-on’s and pull-off’s.
I think in general, at some point, if one enjoy’s Holdsworth’s music and explores similar technique, one hopes one doesn’t run into folks arguing gospel that runs counter to observable evidence, and that one doesn’t fall into the trap of knowing certainty beyond the evidence that he used lots of techniques and that he worked hard on his sound.
I mostly agree with what aliensporebomb is saying here (thanks), although I might state the reason as, “so that the mechanics of his lines didn’t show through and obscure the musical message as intended.”
RIP Mr. Holdsworth, and love to the family and friends. Peace out, y’all.
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I know Pals of Al and - I almost feel like I want to ask them what they learned since some of them were players.
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So, I’m obviously not nearly in the same league as Harrison when it comes to being an authority on legato… but, I don’t fully agree with him on that.
Yes, technically speaking, “legato” is a classical notation to play a passage smoothly and flowingly rather than clearly articulated. Yes, simply using hammer ons and pull offs, while likely smoother than a picked approach, doesn’t inherently make a passage “legato” in the classical sense.
But, at the end of the day, using a less-slurred, more clearly articulated hammer-on and pull-off technique to play passages is still an entirely valid way of playing lines on a guitar. Harrison referred to it as something to the effect of “that John Petrucci sort of bullshit” in the one video I recall hearing him talk about it, but honestly as a predominately “legato” player myself, I’ve consciously tried to bring out the attack in my hammer on and pull off playing, to try to clearly define each note, rather than to slur them all together.
This is, to me, still very much a musical choice, and a decision you need to make as a musician as to how you want your playing to sound. I think Harrison is a little overly dogmatic here, and I think if there’s anything CtC has demonstrated, it’s that a lot of the most technically accomplished guitarists aren’t as dogmatic as they maybe think they are, when it comes to playing technique.
But, as they say, that’s only my two cents, and that and a couple bucks will get you a cup of coffee.
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Mmm, coffee…
We’re all wired differently, some less likely to offend than others, and I recall the quote as “not good at all,” with regard to quality of legato.
Absolutely, won’t get any argument from me on that point!
Harrison clearly admires a whole slew of shredders that don’t use his “SWYBRYD” approach, so I took his point as being with regard to legato as he understands approaches from Chopin et al.
Yeah, without getting hung up on any particular resource’s presentation skills, I take from a lot of sources and thank goodness for CtC helping to break through the self-impressions and getting at helpful data!
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How advanced are each of the Tom Quayle legato lessons? I wouldn’t want to buy no. 1 only to find it’s aimed at complete beginners. Are the three graded in difficulty or is it more just different concepts with each?
They definitely build on each other. If you already have some legato chops you might skip the first one, through I found several of the explanations and exercises and I wouldn’t call myself a complete legato rookie.
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Great, thanks. I might give no. 2 a go
Hi @Tom_Gilroy! With the second fretting hand posture, are you able to perform pull-offs or only hammers? I can’t seem to fret the notes that way and then do an effortless pull-off.
I cannot believe so many people are so concerned about “how legato their legato sounds.” If we alternate pickers were this obsessive over “how staccato our staccato sounds” we’d probably be comparing notes on how often we break strings from the sheer force of trying to pick each note with as absolutely a heavy pick attack as possible!
I was taught if you’re using hammer-ons and pull-offs it’s legato and if you’re picking all or at least most of the votes it’s staccato." Besides, how can anyone have an “all-hammer-on legato” when if the next note you want to play is on a lower fret, you have to use a pull-off to get there?
If Holdsworth picks notes that would normally be pulled-off when a player wants legato, and hammer-ons are his only legato technique, then he’s neglecting the possibility for roughly 50% more legato since you can estimate that there are normally a roughly 50/50 split between hammer-ons and pull-offs in legato lines. Have you heard Criss Oliva’s legato sound on his solo to the title track of “Edge Of Thorns”? That os top notch, elite level legato!
Please don’t take this is criticism; I’m just amazed at how seriously some people go after making sure they have “the most legato legato that there could ever possibly be.” In 34 years of being a guitarist I’ve never come across anything like this. So again, I’m not criticizing anyone and I want to say that because on the internet we don’t have the benefit of tone of voice and facial expressions to illustrate the difference between a little good hearted ribbing and something meant with malice or cruelty.
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