How do you move from the higher strings to the lower ones?

Technique Critique
#1

I’m torn between two approaches:

a) Move up with my elbow: While doing this, my pick follows a sort of crescent path, the advantage to doing this is my shoulder stays relaxed(almost no movement there), the disadvantage is I end up muting the lower strings(I play with the ball of my hand resting on the bridge).

b) Move up with my elbow + shoulder: My pick moves up and down in a straight line, advantage is no muting happens, disadvantage is it puts strain on my shoulder.

I’m sorry if a video covering this by Troy already exists, I tried finding one but couldn’t, if it does please link me to it, and if it doesn’t, I’d appreciate the community’s opinion on which approach is better.

#2

I move, almost exclusively with the wrist, then forarm rotation. Doing it that way the ball or heel of your palm can rest on the top of the bridge and have full access to the strings.

Using the elbow and shoulder are more rythem techniques in my opinion.
You can see Marty Friedman doing elbow and shoulder to play rythem in this very well

For the solo he uses wrist rotation and flextion/extension. With almost no elbow.

I think moving just the wrist and rotating the forarm is a waaay better way to move from High to low, rather than elbow or shoulder…

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#3

Not for me. Using slight shoulder rotation and elbow motion works best for me. I can keep my edge picking angle without having to adjust grip to compensate. The rotation and flex/extension applies more to forearm and wrist players. Wrist only pickers have to track differently.

It really depends on how you pick and I’d recommend posting a video to show the issues you are having as there is no one simple answer to this question.

There shouldn’t be tension in the shoulder when tracking. I barely feel it at all. I’m not raising the shoulder, just slightly rotating it along with some elbow motion.

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#4

Here is a video from Troy. This is more geared towards forearm and wrist picking though and may not suit your way of picking

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#5

Thank you for the quick response and going through the trouble of making the video, I really appreciate your help. I’ve tried playing like you do before, but gave up on that approach because I couldn’t maintain a constant pick angle, how do you deal with that problem? I hope I’m understanding your technique correctly by the way, you don’t move the ball of your wrist from where you’ve planted it, and curve your wrist to reach the lower strings. I also gave up on this approach because of this video.

#6

The vid you linked shows the difference between forearm and wrist picking tracking and a more wrist only based picking.
Flex/extending and forearm rotation doesn’t work for a flatter wrist only approach.

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#7

I think we have pretty similar techniques, I too try my best not to tense up/raise my shoulder, and only rotate it, and the goal of doing this is constant pick angle for me too.

Here is a recording of me playing (with elbow+shoulder first, then with just the elbow). It’s a shit tier recording so I apologise in advance, and please let me know if you need another angle.

#8

It’s hard to see a difference between the two, more because it’s a very subtle thing that’s hard to see and not because of your video.

Both appear fine though. Personally I tend to rotate the shoulder a little and move a bit from the elbow. I don’t overthink it though and this could be part of the problem.

I do pick using forearm and wrist though and could make at least a few string changes without moving the elbow at all. But it doesn’t feel comfortable for me to do this and I also find I have to constantly adjust my finger and thumb to control edge picking on each string change.

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#9

I use my thumb and index to change pick angle. The anchor on top of the bridge gives you all the range you need for just about anything. Any pick angle changes are in the index n thumb.
For me anyway. I know many people here play differently. It works for me though

2 Likes
#10

It does make more sense to use a more compound movement like elbow+shoulder than just the elbow, seems synergistic, constant pick angle, no muting, I just need to tackle the pain somehow, that’s what triggered me overthinking this :’) maybe I’ll see a physiotherapist. Thanks a lot for your help man.

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#11

Ahh okay, thank you for clarifying, I will try to learn your technique if I can’t find any solution to the shoulder pain problem.

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#12

I think based on your forearm angle with relation to the strings, you’ll need some degree of shoulder to keep a similar spot on the strings as you cross.

I have a more shallow angle to the strings, so I think I just use elbow.

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#13

Damn dude nice playing, also at around 40 second mark I can see your arm moving back and that movement comes from the shoulder I think, correct me if I’m wrong.

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#14

@Thornus I’ll try to focus on what’s moving next time I play!

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#15

Here’s a vid of the index n thumb use to change pick angle. It lets you go over all the strings with the same angle or a changing angle depending on that you need. I can’t play as fast as the majority of players here especially @Pepepicks66 lol. But I think that roll of the pick with index n thumb gives you a lot of options. If frees up a lot of movements that would otherwise not work. I think perhaps you’re not using this as much as you could? The thing to notice is the thumb pointing downwards when playing lower strings(the first descending example is not using thumb roll and is akward). Thats what gives you the range when your wrist can’t go much further.

In the video BERNTH did, he did not move his thumb for his example. He kept it straight and didn’t go on to explain that? Yet all his playing is using this kink or roll of the thumb? Idk why he didn’t mention that major fact, but if you just roll the thumb it will change the pick angle and you can play like him.

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#16

Yes, unfortunately the elbow was completely out of the shot… but other videos you can see him move from the elbow.

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#17

Thank you, that video clarifies things further, and yeah you’re right I’ve never experimented with using my fingers to change the pick angle, infact I’ve been mindful of keeping them in a foxed position, but I think I should be focusing on doing that more, specially if I’m moving around just 4 strings. Also I think your playing style kind of matches Synyster Gates’.

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#18

In my experience the floating across the bridge comes with experience naturally. I don’t think it’s something you should foucus on. It uses shoulder n elbow but thats a hard thing to control consciously, it’s probably best to let your body do that naturally than force it. I’ve found that focusing on a solid anchor point is best, and over time you will naturally loosen up and use other techniques and muscles to move across the strings…

That video you recorded is all four note chromatic, so no pick angle change needed. You can USX or “up stroke escape” with little effort as you did.
If you do a three note per string descending run or a descending sweep, it should show you what you need to focus on.

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#19

I think on another thread, he showed great dsx potential with tremolo.
So 4nps works fine but start with an upstroke, not downstroke.

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#20

I agree fam, best to let certain things develop naturally. The problem that lead to me asking this question/overthinking this was, I naturally developed the shoulder+elbow movement but it started giving me sharp pain in the shoulder when I played with my sleeves rolled down. For some reason I need the friction of my forearm’s skin against the guitar’s body(sort of like a second anchor point, apart from my palm on the bridge, to take some load off my shoulder), and that made me feel like I’m doing something wrong, but now I think its fine, it just works for me.

And I’ve just discovered pickslanting so the plan right now is to master DSX(which comes naturally to me somehow) with universal mind, then USX with some other lick, then I’ll learn 2WPS. Thought of using 2WPS with universal mind but its turned out to be too much to handle.