How does one practice ascending sixes?

Playing Technique
#1

As a downstroke escape player, I’m ready to try some descending phrases when the escape is on the upstroke. I am not sure how to practice this though. It is not an option to slow down, as then I’d be using a different picking technique, but if I try to play at speed (currently 120bpm sixes), I end up swiping in a horrible way - it’s not just a tiny brush of the lower string, I barrel through it with a lot of force, like a really emphasized rake. I don’t think this is what we mean by swiping; plus, it is a speed bump and throws me off.

How do I practice this, if I can’t slow it down? What exercises have y’all used to practice your disadvantaged escape?

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#2

So, funny story.

I joined Cracking the Code because I was a pretty solid legato player, but mediocre-at-best at alternate picking and since I was about to take a forced hiatus for shoulder surgery thought I’d try to re-learn the right way when I came back. Villain origin story aside, I joined and figured out I was also an escaped downstroke player. Simply knowing what sort of phrases I SHOULD be able to play really helped, but I also had some kinks in my technique I wanted to smooth out. One of them in particular, I could feel my arm “winding up” on a few pickstrokes for some reason, like cocking the pick back somehow, and I knew that it couldn’t possibly be mechanically efficient. Turns out, I was only doing that when I needed to change strings after an upstroke, and what that “winding up” feeling was, was my wrist rotating with the upstroke to pull the pick up above the plane of the strings, facilitating an escaped upstroke, and while maybe it wasn’t technically speaking purely mechanically efficient in the sense it would have been hard to do repeatedly at tempo, it was a “helper” motion that let me add in the odd escaped upstroke in an otherwise escaped downstroke run.

All that said - I’d bet you a burrito (my standard unit of wager) that you’re already doing something that works, and you just need to figure out what it is and stop fighting it.

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#3

Can you record a clip of yourself playing this pattern? If so, you can send it here or open a TC. I’d be happy to help you with that.

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#4

Thank you Joao. Here you go:

Full speed: https://youtube.com/shorts/_I2VnQD0Kfs

Slow motion, but the audio is fully out of sync with the video for some reason, might be better for visuals only: https://youtube.com/shorts/mbtjpJW0xIA

#5

They’re set to private.

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#6

Bah, I forgot the difference between private and unlisted. Send me back to preschool. It’s corrected now.

#8

Why is the trapped pickstroke on the fifth note necessary? Preparation for the USX stroke, or something else?

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#9

That’s it! It’s a preparation.

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#10

How does this stack up against the fact that I’m pretty sure you can use an almost identical approach for Gilberts (only one note on the higher string), inside or outside, which gives no time for the preparation?

(I don’t mean to come out swinging! I’m trying to understand what seems to me like a fine point)

#11

Just to make sure I understand correctly, are you referring to this lick?

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#12

Yes! Exactly. Both inside and outside versions.

#13

Thank you for the very detailed explanation! I appreciate the time you put into this. Am I able to practice the sequence you posted (DSX – DSX – DSX – DSX – TRAPPED – USX) slowly, say at 120bpm 16ths? I remember some videos by Troy saying that slowing down too much means you revert back to an inefficient technique, because efficiency is not needed, and that practicing at slower tempos does not help with high speed picking. I wish I could find the videos but I don’t have a subscription at the moment.

And also, out of curiosity, does Paul Gilbert swipe this string change then?

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#14

I’m not João, of course, but I don’t think Paul ever plays this sort of thing where he picks all the notes. He does down hammer hammer on the first string, then up down up on the next. Whether or not the string change is always clean, I don’t know, but I’d bet it was at least most of the time, back in the day.

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#15

You can slow down the technique you use at higher tempos as long as you make sure to use the same technique. It’s starting at a slower tempo that may cause issues as you may use a different technique than you would at tempo.

As for Paul Gilbert swiping the Gilbert sixes, yes, he swipes it. He talks about that pick stroke being the most difficult one in that sequence in one of his videos (Intense Rock, I think it was).

I tend to swipe it, too, and have found it easier and cleaner if I start with an upstroke. There’s nothing wrong with the swipe if it works, but every once in a while I’ll get a harmonic that jumps out on the swipe, so I try to avoid that.

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#16

You make great points Joao-thanks so much for the excellent demo videos and explanations!

When you say “if you want to play this CLEAN…” that reminded me of EVH’s “Spanish Fly” sixes that I’ve discussed quite a while back. I think he generally had a bit of trouble executing those sixes with exactitude because he DIDN’T have a “plan” like this and so what came out was just what came out both on the record of that piece and in the many other recorded and live instances of him trying to execute those sextuplets…with varying results of course-sometimes more fluently than other times and never with a truly consistent and repeatable pattern. Wolf Van Halen discussed this just a day or two ago on a podcast where he demonstrated and explained how he thinks his father approached this in the context of the “Girl Gone Bad” drum/guitar synch riffs…

https://youtube.com/shorts/Com-qysakeY?si=mxKAH7gDuytmr3uy

I don’t think that this is exactly what Edward did, but I think the general concept of “fudging” is kind’ve accurate.

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#17

I think you are mistaking the “Gilbert Pattern” with “Gilbert Sixes”. Gilbert Pattern = A B C D C B repeat, whereas the “sixes” are A B C D E F. But he never fully picks A B C D E F in looped fashion as far as I know, so all is irrelevant.

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#18

Yeah, the Gilbert 6s as I know them are the Technical Difficulties pattern. I know because I absolutely abuse this motif in variations in my own playing now. :rofl: I was confused when I first opened this thread, but then figured out what the OP was asking about was probably clear enough anyway, so… But yeah you’re absolutely right.

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#19

Right, that and Colorado Bulldog, and other stuff I’m sure. That’s just how he plays that sort of thing - Paul’s take on EVH, as @garbeaj brought up.

To further confuse things (haha), Gilbert Sixes as Troy originally dubbed them is all picked, but it’s ABCDEF, DEFGAB, GABCDE etc… all DSX staying in a 3NPS position.

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#20

Sorry for the delay!

Yes, even in these types of licks you can have enough time to prepare. To be more precise, there are two movements for outside picking and two for inside picking, and of course, this is applicable with 2wps. If you can do it with DBX, excellent!
I’m demonstrating the two outside picking movements in the last video I sent here, the first with a note on the highest string, and the second with a note on the lowest string and the others on the highest string.
Well, despite being “outside” picking, they don’t necessarily have the same feel when playing. It’s a somewhat complex subject to explain only with words, as it requires 2wps, and within this technique there are many variables.
But I’ll be happy to record an example of this soon when I have a moment. Because I’m addicted to technique, haha.

Also, Paul Gilbert uses swiping in the vast majority of outside string changes, especially when playing very fast. But I wouldn’t worry about that, because his result is incredible! And in my humble opinion, swiping can have advantages over some things compared to strict alternate picking.

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#21

Nothing to apologize for, thank you for taking the time to respond! And I’m (somewhat) sorry for hijacking the thread.

Yeah, swiping sounds really good for many outside picking licks, and I suspect has a slight speed advantage when it’s applicable.

I have some more questions but don’t want to shit up the thread. Can I PM you with them, or should I just wait for the material coming out?