How long should it take to learn a new picking motion/technique?

Playing Technique
#1

How long should it take to learn a new form/technique? I’m not actually concerned about how long it takes, more whether if seems to take too long, then maybe its an indicator that something isn’t quite right?

I don’t want to worry too much about how long it takes to learn a new technique, but I don’t want to spend lots of time learning something incorrectly.
I apologise if this is a slightly silly question

Thank you :slight_smile:

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#2

It is possible within one practice session for a single note tremolo phrase, assuming you get all of the variables correct (pick choice, pick grip, anchoring, posture and movement of the joints involved, etc), IMO.

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#3

Thats good to know, thank you!
How about for playing more complex phrases that span multiple strings?

Thanks again :slight_smile:

#4

Potentially longer if you have issues with string tracking, or need to learn a helper motion for 2WPS. That is just a guess on my part.

I should note my opinion for the tremolo is based on personal experience, and should not be taken as absolute fact. That was for one movement (Moore style elbow DSX). Other motions have taken me longer or eluded me entirely.

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#5

If you mean you can make the correct motion during one practice session I agree. Getting it to a point where you can recall the motion on command tends to take me a couple of months, getting to point where I can span multiple strings and then adding in a helper motion has taken me a couple more months :slight_smile:

In my experience, if you can access speeds of 173bpm 16th notes and above for around 30 seconds at a time and it feels effortless (for single escape) then you’re onto something, anything less than this I wouldn’t waste time on, you’d probably just be ingraining an inefficient motion.

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#6

So uhh… Why specifically 173 BPM? That seems oddly precise.

#7

Haha, it definitely is. Anything under this I could do with my old inefficient motion that was a little painful and felt like a lot of work.

I learnt both of my new efficient motions using this speed as a baseline and they both now feel comfortable playing at 200bpm 16th notes :slight_smile:

All that being said, this is just my anecdotal experience but I think it can be really useful having a certain speed to aim for, just so you know if what you’re doing is actually working. I’ve seen a number of motion critique videos and most people working below this speed seem to be using an inefficient motion, that or they will play faster but only in very short bursts.

I’m currently trying to find a baseline for DBX, I remember seeing a post where @joebegly asked Troy a similar thing and he said to aim for around 150bpm 16th notes. That seems to match with what I’m finding at the moment, this week I was making some progress at 130bpm 16th notes but it was a little tiring, after noticing this and focusing on the feeling of effortless and practicing rolls between 140-150bpm 16th notes I feel like I had a major breakthrough yesterday although I can’t say for sure as it’s still very early.

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#8

That’s awesome about the dbx breakthrough. When something clicks, take note of everything - grip, contact points, degree of pronation/ supination etc. Things won’t be so sensitive once you really get it under control but things like this be sort of a trail of breadcrumbs to find your way back to it

#9

Yep, it’s very exciting!

Definitely, feel like this is SO much harder for DBX when you’'re starting point is moving between 3 strings compared to 1 string with single escape.

#10

Yeah it’s weird because if you’ve never done dbx before (which I think tends to be most people), it feels quite different from anything else we’ve done. Still, keep in mind the effortlessness of a good tremolo. Even though to my knowledge there isn’t a dbx version of a tremolo, the motion should still feel pretty smooth when done correctly at fast-ish speeds. It’s the whole “doing something you’ve never done” part that is tough. So if you’ve found something that works at times in the 150’s range, very good things are right around the corner

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#11

In my personal case, I have made progress on learning that I don’t seem to have any physical or neurological problem that could prevent me from moving my hand fast but, after several months of trying to achieve an efficient picking motion, I don’t think I’ve made any progress whatsoever. That leads me to think I’m doing something wrong and don’t know what it is.

#12

I’ve tried multiple techniques over the years, and for me… it’s taken months, like just hammering away at something I’m working on, because your nervous system has to adapt and your muscles need to adapt too. To get comfortable with a technique to where it’s second nature it can honestly take years, I practiced the evh middle finger for two years before it felt fluid and natural. It might sound like a lot of time, but I’m sure you have experienced, years go by in a flash. You just need to make it a habit, and eventually it’ll work. The time is not really that important, whats most important is if you’re doing what you feel you should. If you feel a drive towards a technique, and get off on it, you’ll get there. Anything that keeps you active is good.

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#13

this is a very good question!!!

I’ll attempt a concise answer, let me know if anything is unclear:

  1. learning a “new something” (e.g. a new picking motion) is a process of trial and error. It is NOT a process of mindless repetition of exercises with a metronome. This is a over-used and probably inaccurate analogy, but think of learning to balance on a bike for the first time. You just have to try until you get it right once, pretty much “by chance”. Then, you have to figure out how to do it again a few times until you can do it on command.
  2. the key is to make attempts that are as varied as possible, at a realistic speed, until you get some correct (or almost correct) attempts by chance. This could even happen in your very first session, but likely not consistently. Or it may not happen in months of trying if the attempts are all incorrect and you don’t have enough variation in your “trials”.
  3. Keep reminding yourself that wrong motions don’t become correct by simple repetition. If you don’t change something, the results won’t change.

You may have noticed that I did not answer the “how long should it take” question. This is intentional. If you get stuck in the “how long” mindset, there’s the danger to just end up doing a lot of point (3), i.e., identical repetitions of something incorrect, in the hope that 6 months later it will become magically correct.

Having said that, this trial and error process is not so easy to implement. But it’s important to be aware of it.

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#14

Thanks @tommo its interesting to know that trial and error is probably more effective, I’ll try to include that in my practice more :slight_smile:

On a side note - is trial and error something that people do naturally anyway, even if they don’t mean to?

Thank you!

#15

I absolutely think all the greats do/did this. Rick Graham is one of many, but he’s mentioned he doesn’t think about ‘practice’ so much as he thinks of ‘self awareness’. I can’t find the video but the summary was this continuous feedback loop where once he plays something he reflects on if there’s a problem, how to fix the problem, then if it’s gone etc. So, not just mindless repetitions hoping things improve, but actively addressing the issues.

EDIT: found it. Whole question is cued but he starts talking about “problem solving”

  1. Realizing a problem exists
  2. Identifying what the problem is
  3. Fix it
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