How would YOU play this?

I’m doing a metal version of a song from the original Transformers soundtrack and have come across a phrase that is stumping me a little. here it is with downstrokes and upstrokes notated:

Capture

My problem is where the red line is: going from an upstroke on the 10 of the A string to the 7 on the D string. The only thing I can think of is to instead of playing the 10 on the A string, play it as a 5 on the D string.

Here is the original audio clip from the soundtrack just in case it helps:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1bBe019ihip73heq54tDH9hVBBx0ksZ-x/view?usp=sharing

1 Like

There are two ways I would play this. The first uses mostly UWPS with a rotation on the eighth note, going right back to UWPS after that. The second way uses only DWPS, but includes a pull off. Of course, this changes the whole picking pattern, so it might not be exactly what you’re looking for.

transformers

3 Likes

I gave it a quick try.

I changed the last D note to play it on low E to avoid shifting positions.

Since the lick isn’t DWPS or UWPS compliant, but also isn’t too fast, I just went ahead and tried it to see what my hand would do. The result is this:

looks like 2WPS can be achieved easily at this speed.

thoughts?

3 Likes

thanks for responding. so right off the bat, aside from my original question, I see when you go from the first downstroke 10 on the A string to the 7 on the D string you don’t use one downstroke to connect them (sweeping?) Can I ask why that is?
Sorc%20tabliture

and p.s. how did you come up with that nice looking piece of tab??

By the way, I listened to the lick. The last three notes seem to be on a different scale. On the A string it sounds to me like F, F#, G# rather than E, F G.

But I stick to my solution because the position shift is still easier to do for me.

1 Like

I just wrote the tab in Guitar Pro and made a screenshot. The reason why I would alternate pick this is because it works with UWPS. The downstrokes don’t get trapped in the strings. Before finding CtC, I knew about economy picking and I tried to sweep every string change I could. That often lead to the same problem as you showed in the original tab. At some point there is a need to alternate pick a string change and that’s where my technique fell apart. With my current knowledge, I figured out that sometimes alternate picking is easier than trying to do everything with economy, especially when that would force an awkward string change.

1 Like

beautiful. wanna come over my house tomorrow and record just that part for me? :grinning:

you might be right about the notes at the end. I was doing it from memory without a guitar in front of me. thanks for uploading that snippet of it.

1 Like

Interesting. I started doing EP right after I found CtC. After all I thought the main point of cracking Yngwie’s code was that everything was done with EP/sweeping and moving notes around in order to accommodate the style. But it’s good to know that it’s not necessary all of the time.

I like to do a scale run that’s very similar to this. I play it with an economy pick and a swipe to maintain DWPS.

image

I thought economy and a swipe were the same thing…

Economy and “sweep” are the same thing. A swipe is where you play through (essentially sweep through) a muted ghost note to get to the other side of the string for an upstroke.

1 Like

Here’s how I do it:

adsfadsf

3 Likes

Here’s mine. I thought I was doing TWPS when I was playing it but looking at the slo-mo, I think I’m mostly DWPS with some swiping. I have trouble working out what I’m doing, so I’d be interested to hear what other people think. Only recently tried videoing myself.

2 Likes

it’s awesome to see you guys perform this small phrase that has been a huge part of my childhood!

I don’t really want to do any hammer on or pull offs, as i want to emphasize the attack of each note.

I have been practicing it two different ways:

  1. I have been doing EP /swipe picking for the first 8 notes when applicable and then alternate pick for the rest.

  2. i have been changing style based on chunking. The first 5 notes are one chunk, then the next 6 and then the last three. All are done with EP/swiping when applicable, but the last note of each chunk and the first note of the next chunk are done with alternate picking even if I could swipe.

number two seems to sound the most natural even though I am trying hard to make #1 work.

1 Like

A few things - the last three notes in the original tab aren’t the same as the recording - on the recording it’s F Gb Eb rather than E F D

Also, the lick is in 7/8 so there’s no pause on the last note, it loops as consecutive 8ths or 16ths.

Unfortunately I’m out without a guitar so haven’t actually tried playing it, but here are a few variations for all DWPS and all UWPS

I tried to make these so they could loop correctly, and very quickly, while maintaining the one way slant.

3 Likes

Ok, back with the guitar - I’m a downward slanter so I only tried my first two concoctions:

top line:

second line:

Edit: sorry, didn’t see the spot about no hammer ons :slight_smile:

2 Likes

This is cool guys! We should do it more often! Proper cracking :sunglasses:

Maybe if this thing flies, there can be a dedicated forum category.

I have the next lick in mind!

5 Likes

Jake, super impressive and inspiring.

So I tried recording today and could not play the part as I think I needed it to be. I would get the first few measure down and then it would fall apart rhythm-wise. And in the end, I alternate picked the whole thing :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

so I’m going to keep practicing using a hybrid of swiping and alternate picking and if that doesn’t work out than I’ll stick to alternate picking. thanks guys, I really appreciate it.

1 Like

I found I could just alternate pick it as is without too much trouble. I tried to analyse what I was doing and I think it’s just a weird TWPS technique that borders on cross picking. After some experimenting though I found a note grouping that felt somewhat more natural and only used two strings. To visualise it imagine starting with this
image

So that’s two sets of 6 notes separated by a two note turnaround.

Now simply move everything by one note so the Eb is the last note instead of the first to get this
image

Note I’ve left the picking directions the same as it felt more natural to start with an upstroke which meant that by the time you reach the Eb at the end you are back to playing two sets of 6 notes starting on a downstroke and then two notes (the F and F#) as a turnaround.

Again when playing this I guess I’m using the same warped TWPS/crosspick technique but it has a more rhythmical feel to it than the original 3 string approach.

1 Like

Yes, in Yngwie’s case. But he’s playing his own lines, which he is free to write any way he likes.

I think what you’re seeing here is that when you have to play lines that are already written, and those lines don’t easily map to some type of sweeping strategy, sometimes it’s just a whole lot easier to alternate pick it. This is especially true if the fingering is already as simple as it can possibly be, as it is here.

This is one of the reasons you see a lot of alternate picking when you look at players like Chris Thile or Caterina Lichtenberg on mandolin, who both do a lot of (Chris) or almost exclusively (Caterina) classical. I don’t know about Chris, but if someone like Caterina learned the “violin” way, then she can already sightread really quickly using standard violin fingerings/positions. So she’s not going to stop and rearrange the notes to find other fingerings that work if the ones she knows are already working.

Incidentally, there is a lot of sweeping in classical mandolin, to imitate similar violin bowings, like the in Bach violin sonatas and partitas. But those sections are notated as such and classical players can almost sightread that stuff too. It’s wild.

But anyway yes, I think pure alternate is the way to go here for simplicity. Doesn’t really matter whether you call it “two-way pickslanting” or “crosspicking”. We know enough about the actual hand movements now that a line like this should absolutely be playable by everyone if we’re doing our job right.