I have been trying so hard and have made no progress!

[Pepepicks66]

What pick are you using? Could you take a picture of your grip from your perspective?

[Johannes]

@meepmeep

How do I know if it’s a “solid alternate picking motion” or not?

Speed! Smoothness!

If you can speed it up significantly and it feels smooth and relatively effortless, then you know. If not, then you need to change something and try again. You will need to go fast. You can’t judge the effectiveness of a motion by going slow.

What happens if you try to play as fast as you can on a single string? What does it look like?

[meepmeep]

I use a dunlop jazz iii. And yes, I will try and film some better quality videos from different perspectives today.

[meepmeep]

I can keep it steady for a few seconds until it goes out of control (steadiness becomes jittered. miss the string, not fliuid, etc). No longer then 3-4 lo seconds. If I keep it going, the steadiness comes back in 3-4 second bursts here and there. I just get a lot of tension in my picking hand when I do it.

[kcyrowolf]

Definitely film yourself doing this and post it here. If you are experiencing a lot of tension at lower/mid tempos, you could have a string hopping issue going on.

Picking technique is a journey of self discovery and it could be that you just have yet to discover a picking motion that comes naturally to you. Once we can see a clearer clip of what you’re currently doing, we can start to break it down a bit more.

[PickingApprentice]

@kcyrowolf

Picking technique is a journey of self discovery and it could be that you just have yet to discover a picking motion that comes naturally to you. Once we can see a clearer clip of what you’re currently doing, we can start to break it down a bit more.

Definitely agree with this and @Johannes feedback about going for a fast tremolo.

@meepmeep

I can keep it steady for a few seconds until it goes out of control (steadiness becomes jittered. miss the string, not fliuid, etc). No longer then 3-4 lo seconds. If I keep it going, the steadiness comes back in 3-4 second bursts here and there. I just get a lot of tension in my picking hand when I do it.

As recently as yesterday had a similar experience where I didn’t appear to be stringhopping and during practice sessions I could reach speeds close to 200bpm 16ths, but the motion wasn’t quite as smooth and reliable as it should have been. Troy felt that the jittery speed might have indicated that there could be a better motion available and got me exploring my best motions from the table tapping tests - of all things the simple door knocking motion was my best and I’m now working on applying that motion to my current one. Really quick results of smoothness to my surprise, but still a work in progress (below link if remotely interested)

Tremolo tests, with and without metronome

Cheers @JB_Winnipeg. It is still hit & miss and a work in progress on the lower strings, but definitely smoother - its feels like when I’m warmed up, but its accessible almost straight away. It was almost impossible to do the version of the knocking motion that I did with the pen/credit card, but it seems to have shown me what a knocking motion actually is - it looked more like forearm rotation to me at first - I didn’t see the flexion/extension. If I was to sum it up, I’m feeling the knocking…

[meepmeep]

the video is still processing HD quality. But here are a slew of different things discussed.

[PickingApprentice]

I’m not the greatest at analysis of motions but it looks to me like your tremolo motion when smooth is different when you start playing the poptarts lick.

Is it dsx when good and slow usx?

[Pepepicks66]

Your trem picking looks and sounds great! I’m gonna guess elbow DSX (shout-out to @Johannes for catching my mix-up on this).

I’m noticing that when you play the 5s riff and the chromatic scale, you change to USX with wrist motion. Maybe try some riffs that play to the strengths of DSX, such as sextuplets with 3 notes per string on the first string, then 6 notes per string on subsequent strings (or any riff that changes strings after a down stroke).

[meepmeep]

Thanks! I will try and work on that for sure! Do you have any riff recommendations?

[Johannes]

@PickingApprentice

I’m not the greatest at analysis of motions but it looks to me like your tremolo motion when smooth is different when you start playing the poptarts lick.

Is it dsx when good and slow usx?

I agree! The tremolo motion looks like a shallow DSX motion, wrist/elbow. The other motion is USX, with a lot of finger motion and a touch of forearm. A more down-the-strings angle would help a bit in identifying it, perhaps.

@Pepepicks66

Your trem picking looks and sounds great! I’m gonna guess forearm DSX.

Elbow, not forearm, I believe!

[Pepepicks66]

@Johannes

Elbow, not forearm, I believe!

You’re totally right, I still mix those two terms up! I think my brain sees the forearm move and I blurt out FOREARM

[Pepepicks66]

First one that comes to mind is “The Spirit Carries On” by Dream Theater. It starts at measure 85:

The Spirit Carries On Tab by Dream Theater - Solo Guitar - Distortion Guitar...

[meepmeep]

Awesome! I’ll give it a shot.

Here’s another video. I hope these views help.

[kcyrowolf]

It looks like you’re using a DWPS (downward pick slanting) form but the motion appears to be DSX (downstroke escape). Often DWPS form with DSX motion can run counter to each other and I know this is something that was tripping me up some time ago.

It looks like you’re onto something with the single string tremolo picking. As an experiment, try it with a more obvious UWPS (upward pick slanting) form, involving a more pronated forearm. This could include the thumb-side palm as a contact point as well or/instead of the pinky-side palm.

Not at all saying you should pick it his way, but it would be worth experimenting with some options to see if anything clicks.

[meepmeep]

Yeah the single string tremolo speed is hiding somewhere. I get really good bursts when I least expect it. It’s very frustrating.

DWPS - not enough supination vs not enough rotation

Sorry for the delay in responding — saw this thread a while back but we’ve been swamped. In short, a video is worth 1000 words: I’ll give you the words too. The doing of this is very simple and physically easy, but deceptive. If you use the setup where the entire right side of the hand rests on the strings, and the wrist is lightly flexed, you will get a blend of wrist and forearm that looks like this: This is the “Doug Aldrich” style of motion which is super common, some version of whi…

I’ve been watching troys instagram clip on upstroke and downstroke escape and how he switches between both so easily. When I try to do USX my whole hand turns.

[jzohrab]

Hi @meepmeep - I’m a student too, so my word isn’t gold. Hang in there.

I see a couple of things in your first video right off the bat, do any of these resonate? I haven’t looked at anything else.

• your picking actually looks quite relaxed. Sure the motions are big, and perhaps there are a few things that aren’t consistent, but you have a starting point. I just watched the “quack quack” vid and it looks decent.
• your fretting hand, to me, looks like a far bigger area of concern. The fingers are rising way off the frets, and the timing is inconsistent. The little finger is curled under as well.

While this is mostly a picking forum, I believe working on your fretting will be far more impactful for you. Since the two hands need to work together as a unit, bringing your fretting up will give you a boost. Also, I believe that the evident mental tension you have with your fretting hand will feed into picking tension as well – your muscles need to constantly fight to get things to work, resulting in more effort.

My strong recommendation at the moment, given your first video: drop the right hand entirely, and get your fretting hand more relaxed, minimal motion, and even. There are many great drills out there, one I’ve been working on is the “spider walk” – e.g. I Did the "Spider Walk" for 30 Days (THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED!) - YouTube . Another monster player who discusses left hand is Rick Graham, eg Rick's Guitar School - Technique Class: Economy of Motion for the Left Hand - YouTube .

Cheers! jz

[meepmeep]

Hey Jz! Thanks for the advice. Yeah… I will not deny I have terrible technique. I suppose I never practiced it because I never knew how.

I will check out the recommendations!

[jzohrab]

Cheers! Ping if you have questions about any drills you find, or post to the forum. Like everything, there are good and bad drills out there – some people shouldn’t be giving advice, and others should be heeded. For left hand, keep it even, effortless (as much as possible), and don’t push too hard, because that leads to “false technique”, i.e. technique that really is covering up other problems. Best wishes! jz

[meepmeep]

Alright so things to work on.

1. Left hand more relaxed. Minimal motion.
2. Work on strengthening DSX. (UWPS form)

Also, @Johannes
Did you happen to take a look at the new video I posted? Is that a better “down the strings” view you suggested?

If anyone else wants to chime in on my struggle… please do! I need all the advice and help I can get. I’d love to get some insight/tips on left hand tension/ pushing too hard on the back of the neck with my thumb… and tense wrist.

Thanks to everyone so far for their advice.