I have been trying so hard and have made no progress!

Not to pick on you @Pepepicks66, but I don’t believe this is good advice. Actually, I’d describe is as potentially harmful. Your thumb is drawn hard into opposition and your wrist angle seems severe to me in this picture.

As am I!

Indeed. Terrifying.

Notice in these picture how while Shawn and Eric are fretting with their 3rd fingers, their 4th fingers are flexed below the neck of the guitar. Conventional wisdom is that this is indicative of excess tension. Conventional wisdom is wrong. Precisely the opposite is true.

To follow on from this, here are a few videos which might be helpful.

The hand at rest

Pinch Grip vs Power Grip

Also, here was a video I made for another forum member helping him to address some issues he was having with fretting posture. You may find it helpful:

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I just put your name to your face. I was watching your videos yesterday! Excellent knowledge and I’m excited to learn more from you.

Whatever is comfortable to the player!

Thank you for your kind words.

@Tom_Gilroy I’m not feeling picked on, no worries! I was just regurgitating what I was told when I first started. I just now found it ironic that I said this, considering that CtC is pretty much the polar opposite of “regurgitate the conventional wisdom of picking” lol. Please feel free to correct me, as I’m not formally trained on this. Cool videos btw!

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I knew you were mostly just trying to show me where to keep my thumb since mine was really far off. It is more comfortable closer to the index and middle fingers for sure.

Also found this article which seems to have a good amount of downstroke string change licks.

https://www.guitarworld.com/lessons/strategic-string-crossing-killer-picking-runs

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I’ll definitely be coming back to watch these - always interested in opportunities to pick your brain - but mostly just commenting to say it’s good to see you around here again, man.

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Hi Drew, thank you. I’ve sent you a private message.

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I’m sure many of you know who Tom Hess is on youtube. I downloaded his E-book and there were a few things in it I wanted to share.

In the first photo it looks like his wrist isn’t straight and in the second photo… are you really supposed to curl your fingers like that to play? When I try my wrist hurts like FUQ.

Ignore everything that book tells you to do. Please.

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I think the main problem is with the inflexibilty of the approach. “There is only one correct way to fret things” is basically a recipe for disaster/injury. Plus it goes against all the evidence that the excellent @Tom_Gilroy has collected and shared around here :slight_smile:

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This kind of feedback (specifically the pain) should be ALL the information you need to throw that approach in the bin. :smiley:

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Context is everything. Soloing/Shred stuff? Nah. However, curved fingers are necessary if you’re playing anything polyphonic though (e.g. jazz chord melody, acoustic fingerstyle or classical), or even strummed chords where not having curved fingertips would dampen notes on the higher strings you’d need to ring clearly.

If doing that causes wrist pain I’d say that’s more a symptom of wrist angle not being correct rather than finger curvature. Consider the amazing David Russell:

image

Some of his fingers are quite curved, as they need to be for the harmony he’s making happen. His wrist isn’t overly arched though, so I doubt he is in any pain.

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Thanks for the nice response! I’m a big fan of david russell. Found him in one of ross the music and guitar teachers videos on youtube.

I’m 99.9% sure all my problems are still coming from my wrist not being straight. It’s such a hard habit to fix.

Without knowing a thing about your playing or posture, I’d still say with 90% confidence that they are.

I had some wrist/tendon problems back in college and spent a long time figuring it out and kind of developing some thoughts around how to avoid wrist problems on guitar. Since becoming a member here, I’ve had to update a lot of that thanks in large part to conversations with members here - Tom, for sure, but a couple others have made observations that really changed how I approached this problem. It’s not that my old thinking was wrong, exactly, so much that it was extremely dependent on other factors of my playing posture, how high I wear guitars, etc, and I didn’t really understand how these other factors were informing my own choices.

Without going further into it, though, the less wrist angle you can have, the better off you’ll be. You can change a lot of variables to get there - raising or lowering your strap, increasing or decreasing the angle you sling the guitar at, changing the orientation and angle of your hand with respect to the fretboard, whatever, just find some way to play with a reasonably straight wrist, and adapt to spend most/all of your playing time in this orientation (and don’t be afraid to explore multiple solutions - it was eye opening to me when someone pointed out that Slash slung his guitars incredibly low which allow him to riff away comfortably with them held pretty horizontally, but when it came time to take a solo he’d often shift the guitar to an extremely steep angle that would allow him to play lead licks with occasionally wider stretches, without compromising his wrist angle any. It’s actually kind of amazing the number of different ways different players have developed a playing position that allows them to maintain a comfortable wrist position while playing with wildly different postures.

Something @Tom_Gilroy has hypothesized that I’m pretty sure he’s right on, is a position that allows as little wrist tension is possible is likely to make your fretting hand faster because you’re starting and finishing movements from a neutral, relaxed position, and not overcoming some initial tension. Anecdotally, being in the process of making some tweaks to my own position, it certainly feels like i’m feeling a greater fluidity in my playing when I’m consciously holding a more optimal position than when I’m not thinking about it.

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Haha. Will do :slight_smile:

Agreed. I’m trying to get better at removing the analytical stuff and just play comfortably.

Definitely agree! I’m working on it :stuck_out_tongue:

This is wonderful. Thanks so much.

If you watch the first video I posted… you can get an idea of my posture and wrist.

Hi @meepmeep. My last comment was a little brief, I didn’t have the time to write something longer and more specific to you.

I’d be happy to give you some specific direction. In order for me to do this, I need more video and from different angles. An angle from the front, an angle from behind you (focusing on the back of the neck) and a “reverse magnet” angle (down the strings facing the headstock) would help me to help you.

Some basic pentatonic playing with some bending and a 3 note per string scale is probably across 6 strings is probably enough for me to work with.

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hey i appreciate that thanks! i’ll try and get something to you this week.

Hey Tom I sent you a private message on here.

Hey man, you’ve got some great advice here and I don’t have anything to add except this, and I see it’s already been said, but ignore anything from Tom Hess. I did his online lessons for a few years and it’s had the biggest negative impact on my technique than any other source. A bit of a google search will tell you all you need to know about him.

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Thanks @jptk I agree. There is a lot of gold in this thread.

I did some google searches and wow. Yeah, thanks for the heads up about Tom Hess.

I will stick to hearing back from the much more knowledgeable Tom @Tom_Gilroy.