I think I just solved my USX problem

Playing Technique
#1

I’ve been struggling with my USX since I found out about this website (before that I had no idea what USX was and that it even mattered :slight_smile: ). My main motion has always been wrist and elbow (dsx) but have always wanted to learn USX to help my rhythm playing (riffs like crazy train for example). For the past 10 years I’ve been playing with the guitar on my left leg, classical position, and it’s great when it comes to fret hand access and it suits my wrist and elbow playing. However…my forearm USX technique has never felt as good as my wrist DSX and I could never figure out why. Today I was playing around trying different things and I noticed that if I put my guitar on my right leg my forearm USX suddenly feels quite natural. It feels like I don’t have to fight the guitar to make my upstrokes escape, it happens without me thinking.

I can’t understand why I haven’t tried this before, I feel kinda stupid but at the same time happy :).

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#2

This is very interesting, I’ve made a similar experience.

When I play seated I also normally used the classical position. I switched to this a couple years ago mainly because of posture and back-related stuff.

Now because of your post I tried again to play with the guitar on the right leg and there’s definitely something to the way my right hand movement changes. It feels like it’s doing more forearm rotation whereas in the classical position I tend to do more elbow.

Maybe it’s placebo, I dunno but it’s definitely worth trying. I’ll try to play that way the next days and see how it goes.

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#3

I actually had the very opposite experience. I’m forearm and wrist usx mostly, but when experimenting with wrist dsx, I could do it with the guitar on my right leg, but not on my left, which is where I’d normally have it!
I was trying to do a spot the difference thing between the two sitting positions but couldn’t figure it out!

#4

Likely the difference in angle it puts your hands/arm/shoulder to the guitar. I can do either and often switch depending on what feels comfortable at any time, probably because I futzed around when I was younger, but I do notice right leg tends to burn my shoulder out faster, which is where I feel most of my guitar playing.

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#5

When I use to watch Cesario alot, or ask him to play sextuplets at some crazy speed like 152 bpm you can see his shoulder rotate into it. I believe he would also say his shoulder gets tired to so its just something that comes with the territory in extreme guitar probably.

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#6

That is um…fast :slight_smile:

I have wondered about this myself lately.

Igor Paspalj is another crazy fast USX player. Looks primarily like a rotational mechanic

But it is that same right leg setup. Can anyone think of players that have the classical seating position and are also predominantly USX? Petrucci is the only one I can think of but he achieves it with wrist technique. Plus I think he also does DSX and DBX but again given he is a wrist player that is not surprising. Just wondering if the right leg and rotational blend are a setup that just works well together. Or maybe conversely, if there is something about that classical position that makes that movement feel awkward?

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#7

heh this was the other guy i wanted to take lessons off of…

#8

Theres another pretty good underground player that is quite good Roma Li.

#9

You were thinking of taking lessons from Igor? His motion seems pretty compatible with that gypsy stuff you like. It looks almost exactly like Yngwie’s rotational stuff to me. Yngwie on steroids, that is :slight_smile: 16ths @ 240 bpm is CRAZY fast. It’s even a little faster that 6’s at 152. I think they’d equal out if 6’s were done at 160bpm.

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#10

yup i need like 3 jobs to pay for all the lessons i want rofl

cracking the code, cesario, igor, van hemert system, different gypsy clubs lol even if i started working i would just be broke again haha

and i would need to like clone my body so i could do it all like multiplicity the movie haha

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#11

Me… :joy: but I ain’t playing at those crazy speeds haha. I can do it right or left leg, it doesn’t affect my mechanic that much. Though I will say I’m more comfortable, in general, playing on the left leg.

That’s for my forearm wrist usx. I actually don’t practice my wrist dsx at all anymore. Just occasionally a quick check to see if I can get it going but I don’t really need it for what I want to do.

#12

Theoretically it shouldn’t really matter so long as placement was the same in either case. I think it’s more a coincidence and a lot of people just naturally throw the guitar on their right leg

#13

So alittle bit of context of why I asked to challenge him on the livestream sextuplets at 152 bpm, because I believe this was a clip from one of his livestreams on youtube, or another one, after he had covered the joe stump song out for blood. For anyone that cares there is a really good transcription of it that max ostro did, and there is a good transcribed section of it in one of joe stumps berklee books on sweep picking and arpeggios. But at the dang top reads 152 bpm and it has sextuplets. Well you know what that means its well above the 12 nps range sigh lol 15.199998 nps (152/60=2.53*6=15.199998) so i just wanted to see how long he could kind of keep playing at such an insane tempo it was for laughs. He is a really nice guy, i believe he all wants us to get better cause he knows how hard it can be. If he still does those live streams you should check one out, always fun to watch him.

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#14

I’ve seen this video of Cesario before and it still amazes me.

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#15

So I was one of Stump’s students way back when, and no doubt the speed is likely correct, but knowing Joe, unless it was a single string lick, he likely economy picks it. This will take a ton of strain off trying to alternate pick an extended line at that speed.

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#16

Oh ya it definitely will but even economy picking is still quite challenging above 12 notes per second for me anyways. ROFL!

Really depends on the line how fast I could really blaze. Certain fingerings would likely hinder this some for my technique. Some really fast others slower.

#17

I dont dog you for dispelling part of the myth, and yes that is correct. Because I often wondered how fast he was with pure alternate. He just seems to realize that in order to play Yngwie live you got to really be utilizing less strenuous maneuvers to keep going for longer and longer sessions. But there is also another video of Cesario purely alternate picking stuff in his vinnie moore instructional livestreamed playthrough if you care to watch it. Although I dont know his speed in this area of technique, but he can do both at I believe at least 12 nps alternate picked scale runs.

Hes doing that turn back, i tried it and he is like ridiculous fast at it. :smile:

Here was the livestream video, but its rather long.

I am working on a soundslice of the clipped version, it will be a work in progress.

#18

I’ll probably take a watch later tonight.

#19

I watched a chunk of it, too bad it’s all in Portuguese, I would have liked to know what he was saying during his commentary. His playing is indeed a lot like stump’s.

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#20

I think the only difference is he hybrids i am not sure if stump did that skipped arpeggio hybrid stuff. i bet he probably did but i never saw it notated in his books. and those 4s sequences descending he will do downstroke pull off ascended string change upstroke for 1 note per string instances, or i think sometimes he just hybrids here too. and here i also dont know if stump did this sort of thing.