Icarus Dream Suite interlude correct picking?

Playing Technique
#1

Hi all,

I will signup for MIM when I have time to study (can I quit my job?), but in the meantime I wonder if someone can help with a small example?

The interlude / double-time section of Yngwie’s Icarus Dream Suite has this repeating pattern:

Eb|----12-11-12----12-11-12----12-11-12-|----12-11-12----12-11-12----12-11-12-|
Bb|-10----------10----------10----------|-8-----------8-----------8-----------|

Eb|----11-9--11----11-9--11----11-9--11-|----12-11-12----12-11-12----12-11-12-|
Bb|-7-----------7-----------7-----------|-8-----------8-----------8-----------|

This is as tabbed in the Hal Leonard books and elsewhere on the internet. I think most people alternate pick, but that doesn’t match the Yngwie rules.

How can this be played with DWPS, and not getting stuck moving from the 1st to 2nd string? The album version sounds like all picking, but maybe I’m mistaken and there’s a pull-off?

Similarly, this same section finishes with a descending run:

Eb|-14-12-11----12-11-------11----------|-------------------------------------|
Bb|----------13-------13-12----13-12-10-|-13-12-10----12-10-------10----------|
Gb|-------------------------------------|----------12-------12-11----12-11-8--|

This is also impossible to play all DWPS, assuming all notes are picked. Even if we start on an up stroke, the last 11 on the top string is problematic.

When looking at tabs online or in the Hal Leonard books, do I just assume there was probably a pull-off when the notes per string is wrong, or is it more likely the notes are on the wrong strings?

Are there similar examples in the Primer or Volcano Seminar?

I’m getting old, I’d like to spend more time playing than analyzing, but I’d like to play the right notes in the right direction!

Thank you for any help,

Martin.

1 Like
How Malmsteen play that lick?
#2

Hi Martin!

Yep the Volcano seminar would show you how to play these passages. Or even just the free videos on YT linked below

In a nutshell you are correct that you should try to include either hammer - ons / pulloffs or downstroke sweeps so that everything becomes playable with upstroke escape. In a rush now but I’ll try to remember later on to show you a couple examples :slight_smile:

#3

Icarus Dream Suite.pdf (51.8 KB)

This is how he is doing it.

2 Likes
#4

I’m not sure about the second line — I think YJM does some pulloffs there to avoid the downstroke string change:
D-D-U-pulloff rather than D-U-D-U for things like this:

---4-7p4
-5------
 D D U pulloff
#5

I`m pretty confident you can hear all the pick strokes.

1 Like
#6

It’s of course possible, but YJM’s pulloffs are so good that they blend very well with “real” pickstrokes, and it can be hard to tell the difference.

A pure alternate solution using Yngwie’s typical setup (upstroke escape) would imply some sort of swiping of the high E string (i.e. playing through a muted string) during the downstroke string change. Which is of course possible.

#7

Thanks both. Yes, I’m not sure about alternate (outside) picking. I can do it pretty well, but never fully mastered it.

Note for the first example it would be either…

    D  D  U  HO
Eb|----12-11-12-|
Bb|-10----------|

or…

    D  D  PO U
Eb|----12-11-12-|
Bb|-10----------|

I’ll give both a try.

@Spooky_tom I’ll give your version of the descending run a go, thank you.

Interestingly, watching the recent “masterclass” Yngwie posted on YT, he seems to descend one note per string on occasion. It looks like lots of mini down strokes, but maybe it’s small upstrokes.

1 Like
#8

He does actually pick all the notes. Check it out:

1 Like
#9

I think there’s a high possibility he’s just swiping/playing through that high e string. Put the YT player at a slow speed and listen carefully - around the :04 mark you can hear the perfect 4th as he picks through a ‘barred’ 8th fret. It would have been awesome to see his right hand lol! Camera guys should know by now that’s all we really care about!!!

Also, I LOVE how he avoids using the dreaded ring/pinky combination at all costs lol! Nice to know I’m not the only one who would rather stretch than do something so uncomfortable (for me) haha

EDIT: AND watching it slower it is super cool how he isn’t really ever ‘stretching’…he’s always lifting his index finger and just the right time so there’s never a chance for that left hand to feel too stretched out. It never ceases to amaze me how intuitive Yngwie is.

1 Like
#10

Thank you @Pemali and @joebegly. That does seem closer to how it sounds to me, vs hammer-on or pull-off. On the album the 2nd string is louder than the 1st in this section, which could be related to this technique.

If I got it right, the first note of each bar is Cb (554 Hz), Bb (494 Hz), Ab (415 Hz), Gb (370 Hz) and E (330 Hz). A 4th above starting bar 3 would give Ab + Db (415 Hz + 554 Hz), Gb + B (370 Hz + 494 Hz) and E + Ab (330 Hz + 415 Hz).

I had a quick look at the album version with the spectrum analyzer in Audacity, and I didn’t see any evidence of a 4th being played. I’ll find a better spectrum analyzer if I’m in the mood later. It does sound like it could be a 4th above in the “Play Loud - Ex-10” clip though.

I’ll have a go at playing it this way:

    D  U  D  U
Eb|-x--12-11-12-|
Bb|-10----------|

What do we call that? Brute force superhero escape? Go through not over.

1 Like
#11

Swiping is the CTC official terminology for this technique

1 Like
#12

Absolutely, and at first (years ago) I thought it was really mysterious, and then I concluded it’s like a “chord” with a muted string, so it suddenly didn’t seem so counter-intuitive.

1 Like
#13

Hi Martin, could you describe your rig in detail when you are working these lines out?

edit: you guys are right, he is “swiping” that B string note, but I guess to me the question is that B string note an upstroke or downstroke, upstroke sounds cleaner but it could well be a downstroke, as at that speed it may not matter.

The second descending part is the usual YJM way, not everything is picked just as @tommo mentioned.

This is a cool lick to steal, I have a soft spot for pedal tone licks. Great thread.

1 Like
#14

Oh wow, he really does pick all the notes, thanks @Pemali ! Sorry for doubting you @Spooky_tom!

That’s a fairly unusual pattern for YJM, I also suspect he may just plough through that muted E string. But who knows, he can also do those pedal tone thingies that sound very clean (Bach fugue kind of thing), so maybe he has figured out the occasional downstroke escape as well.

#15

No worries. I had to double check with Chris Brooks to be sure I was correct with the picking.

#16

Hi Spooky, Can I ask you where you saw Chris playing/notating this riff? I have all of his books and I can’t remember seeing him do this one. Interesting stuff! TIA

#17

It isn’t Yngwie, but this cover is really good and they had decency to give us a nice picking hand camera angle!

Should be queued up but if not, go to 3:25 for the lick of our topic. He’s definitely swiping. To me, it’s the most logical way to play a phrase like this if you’re in the USX paradigm

2 Likes
#18

Chris didn´t notate this. I did for at student but I asked Chris if the picking notation was correct. And he would, with his vast knowlegde og Yngwie, notate it the same way. And if Chris ok´s it- that is okay with me:-)

1 Like
#19

Thanks everyone, great help. I have to adjust my grip a bit, but this seems to be working for me. (my index finger under the pick naturally sits too close to the strings)

Me? I came here to get everyone else to work it out for me :slight_smile: Or do you mean if I pull out the spectrum analyser and go looking for those 4ths?

1 Like
#20

HaHa, I was just wondering if there’s a diff with how this sounds on different rigs, and if that ghost note get more pronounced.

How far you guys got with this one? I’ve been trying to DSX that ghost note but it’s not there yet, close enough maybe. Speed will take a few days more, it’s been added to the bag of things I need to do daily.