Is it necessary to learn 2WPS before starting with crosspicking?


#1

Is it necessary to know 2WPS before attempting to learn crosspicking?

I only use DWPS, can crosspicking be done with a DWPS orientation?


#2

afaik, by definition, crosspicking IS 2wps. it is sort of 2wps on steroids

They are pretty closely related. if you think about it, a 3nps 2wps scale has the same string crossing pick directions as crosspicking an arpeggio. Either way it is still an odd number of pickstrokes per string (either 3 or 1)

you could sort of learn them at the same time with licks like this (16th notes):

g-----------------5
d-------------7------7
a–5--7–8-------------8–7--repeat

if you strict alt pick that, then you are sort of combining a 3nps 2wps scale with a crosspicked arpeggio

a 16th note version of a scale exercise would be like this:

g------------------------5–7--9–7--5------------------
d-------------5–7--8--------------------8–7--5-------
a–5--7–8------------------------------------------8–7 repeat

and of course a regular 3 string arp would be:

g-----------------5--------
d-------------7------7-----
a--------8----------------8- repeat

if you notice, the string crossing pick directions would be the same on all of them, its still D on the A string and U on the D string and D on the G no matter which exercise. So you could sort of learn them all at the same times

I think its an interesting question, which I cant answer, but are there pro players who do crosspicking but who DONT do 2wps? I sort of doubt it but who knows

Id guess that 99% of the guys who now crosspick, started with 2wps years before


#3

I’d say: no!

And here I’d say: yes! I guess by “DWPS orientation” you mean that the pick is tilted? If so, then yes, you can crosspick with this kind of pick orientation. But you could also crosspick with the reverse pick orientation. It’s really not about the pick orientation, but about the movement you are making. You need to do it in such a way, that it results in the pick escaping the string on both up- and downstrokes. Check out the Andy Wood stuff for an example (even though he does not crosspick all the time).

Actually I don’t think that’s how Troy defines it. He even said a couple of times that these terms might not be so good after all. Crosspicking is a way of playing, where the pick escapes the strings after every stroke. 2wps, if I remember correctly, is when you are mostly using single-escapes, but you throw in a couple of double-escapes (to get over the string).


#4

I wont play the “Troy says” game. I think thats a bit silly. At over 50 years old I hope I think for myself at this point

I gathered from the OPs post that he is a one way slanter. if someone wants to show how to crosspick with 1 way slanting I guess its a free world lol. otherwise he is going to have to point the tip of the pick downward at some point unless he wants to stringhop or do something else funky

maybe the OP can clarify if he is a 1way slanter for sure.

in any case thats about all I have to contribute to the discussion. I will bow out of any arguing over terms or semantics. Life’s too short


#5

Yes, as of now I only use DWPS.

What’s the best place to start crosspicking? Is there a tutorial available?


#6

let me try to answer in a simple way so as to avoid confusion (hopefully)

if you watch good crosspickers, at some point the tip of the pick is going to be pointing downwards. AFAIK one cant really just lock the pick in a “dwps” orientation and crosspick from there. I mean, never say never right…I suppose it could be done thru some bizarre maniulations

is that what your question basically is?

(okay, I answered this before I saw your answer to the other posts lol)


#7

there are lots of good free vids available online. Obviously Troy has many cpicking vids. just pick a simple pattern like a 3 string thing and start experimenting.

as a dwps guy it will feel weird at first.

you might even break yourself in a bit by doing these simple “outside” and “inside” patterns starting each with downstroke: (I just used random notes, you could even practice with muted strings)

outside
e--------5--------5 repeat
b----5-------5—

inside
b----5-----5–
g-------5-----5 repeat

then you could combine them and you are off to the races:

e-------5--------------5
b—5------5------5----etc
g---------------5-------

have fun, its gonna feel freaky at first lol

plenty of pertinent info here


#8

Thanks a lot for the comments. I’ll check the video you posted!


#9

yeah there are many good vids out there. this one sort of shows 2 different approaches and also some subtle differences between pickslanting and crosspicking.

dont overthink it though, just have fun at first


#10

One of the guys who really got Troy to grok crosspicking to begin with was Albert Lee, and I’m pretty sure he never did and 2WPS before crosspicking; he just figured out how to play the type of lines he heard in country music with a DWPS orientation.


#11

I would say: No, No (given that as the pick finishes the downstroke it will look “as if” you were doing UWPS).


#12

My personal take on this is : no. Not only it is not necessary, but also possibly counter-productive, depending on how your picking motion, grip etc … is.

With crosspicking, pick angle can be / should be neutral, it doesn’t really matter actually, as long as it’s not extreme. That’s the escape pick path that shows some angle, but the motion itself is not triggered by angling the pick. Now everything is possible in the process of learning something. Probably you can come from a 2WPS perspective and adapt to crosspicking. But in no way (pun intended) it is necessary.

More generally the way I see it 2WPS is an observation rather than it is a technique to learn. Again, you can probably learn 2WPS literally so to speak, but it’s more something that happens automatically, or doesn’t really happen in a way that is worth noticing.

It’s like handwriting. When kids learn to write or draw, they adopt a pen grip, an hand position etc… and go from there. But you don’t learn consciously all the slight adjustments you make for writing letters, figures, lines, curves …


#13

Hey @JonJon, of course you do! I didn’t want to be offensive in any way, sorry if I came across like that.
But if we discuss crosspicking or 2WPS or really anything at all, we better make sure that we are actually talking about the same thing. And as a matter of fact, this forum revolves around the stuff that Troy discovered. He also invented the names and provided the definitions. So when I made that reference, I just wanted to clarify my argument and elaborate on why I think that crosspicking and 2WPS are quite different.