Is there a similar forum for heavy rock singing?

General Music Discussion
#1

Hi,

I’ve been getting great results in getting DWPS working, thanks to all this. Soon will be exploring TWPS next. Great forum feedback, based on undeniably scientific technique deconstruction… I’m just wondering: is there anything similar out there for heavy rock vocals? What’s the best forum or site?

I know there are lots of online courses and teachers, but there are 2 reasons I’m asking for a similar forum here:

  1. Singing teachers often swear by completely conflicting perspectives (sounds familiar to us guitarists).
  2. Maybe there’s already someone out there applying Troy’s approach to analysing, deconstructing and disseminating rock vocal technique…

If not, I wonder if CTC might consider that in the future (short of swallowing our iPhones to do so :smiley: ).

Any suggestions much appreciated.

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#2

I’m sure there are communities out there dedicated to singing technique, but in this case, I would strongly advise trying to find a good teacher that you can see in person.

A great guitar teacher is probably the best way to learn, but isn’t a requirement. Plenty of people have figured it out through recordings, books, videos, etc.

Singing is different than guitar. Unless you played another string instrument, you probably never had any experience playing a fretboard or picking until you picked up a guitar. It’s always easier to learn something when you’re starting from nothing.

But everyone has been using their vocal cords their entire life, and there’s a lot of engrained habits – many of them probably bad. You have to re-learn how to use your body in order to sing properly. And a live teacher can provide instant, tactile feedback that no book or online community possibly can. It’s like Olympic weightlifting. Can you learn it on your own? Possibly. But it’ll be much, much easier with a qualified coach (and almost impossible to reach the highest levels without one).

You’re definitely correct that there are different schools of thought around proper singing technique. Finding the right teacher for you will require some digging. As a longtime music teacher, it is totally fair game to interview any teacher before handing over your money. They should be willing to discuss their pedagogical philosophies, their training and qualifications, success stories, etc. Ideally, you’d get examples where they took someone at your current level, and helped them reach the level you want to attain.

Good luck!

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#3

Not exactly what you’re asking for, but one way to cut through some of the BS around singing pedagogy would be to look at the academic work of Dr. Ingo Titze: http://ncvs.org/ingo_bio.html

In addition to Dr. Titze’s academic publications, the ncvs.org site has information on related books and workshops. I find that for any topic, it can be helpful to find a small number of well-regarded sources and then see what other sources amazon.com relates them to. Looking up Dr. Titze’s textbooks on amazon is a good starting point for surveying other textbooks and popular books with a “technical” bent.

Some of the coolest recent research in voice science comes from Dr. Nathalie Henrich Bernardoni. Some of her research incorporates modern scientific imaging of the vocal tract during phonation, exploring the relationship between traditional “vocal register” categorization vs the actual laryngeal mechanisms employed. She has a textbook published: “La voix chantée : Entre sciences et pratiques”, but as far as I know, it’s only available in French, though she has academic work published in English journals as well. Her website (in both English and French) is here: http://www.gipsa-lab.grenoble-inp.fr/~nathalie.henrich/cv_en.html

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#4

Interesting that you bring that up because much like Olympic weightlifting (which is guaranteed to do permanent damage to your skeleton), being a rock singer will almost definitely damage your vocal cords to some degree. The human voice was not made to sing over Marshall stacks! Having a good teacher though may make the difference whether the damage you sustain is relatively minor, or whether it’s something that will end your career.

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#5

I think this has more to do with the generally self-taught nature of rock singers. Hetfield famously blew out his voice around the time of AJFA. He had to take singing lessons to regain his voice which is why his voice changed from the Black Album onward. I remember Anselmo talking about blowing out his voice in the mid 2000s and how he couldn’t do those Halford-esque shrieks anymore. Dio famously claimed to have never received a vocal lesson and instead relied on breathing techniques he learned from playing the trumpet and he sounded pretty good on the last Heaven and Hell tour. Some lose it worse than others. Geoff Tate and Axl Rose probably being the best examples of 80s singers with sporadic live vocal performances these days.

As for harsh style vocals several vocalists have famously blown out their voices due to the ease of damage the vocal folds in that style. I remember a lot of metalcore/deathcore fans complaining about this a few years back. Jonas Renkse lost his ability to do growls two records into Katatonia’s career which spurred the transition to clean vocals. There are a lack of professional vocal coaches that specialize in the way to perform harsh vocals, Melissa Cross being the most famous.

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#6

Absolutely agree about the necessity of teachers. The same has been true of guitar though, especially with everything to do with RH picking: undoing bad habits. A big thing I recognise in vocal teaching is the encouragement of endless reps of exercises, whereas in truth, big breakthroughs happen too (like realising that pickslanting is the key etc.)

The problem is that I’ve spent years with various teachers. One says use your diaphragm, the other points out that you can’t consciously actually move your diaphragm in isolation. One says keep your tongue down, the other says relax your tongue… If there was a forum like this, with enough people coming from the same explorative perspective, with a consistent language, then it should be possible, for example, to upload a video of isolated Kurt Kobain vocals, followed by my attempt at them, for people to critique and advise on… or someone who is regarded as having “correct” rock vocal technique like Chris Cornell etc…

I’m not suggesting it will replacing direct teaching (this forum hasn’t stopped me getting guitar lessons), but it’s very, very complimentary.

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#7

Thanks, I’ll check these out.

To be clear, what I had in mind is to find a reputable forum, with knowledgeable people on it, to upload my attempts at various rock vocals, along with isolated vocals of the originals, for people to critique… kinda like people do on here with demonstrations of licks, solos or pickslanting techniques…

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#8

And yet, like guitar picking technique, some seem to magically be able to be relaxed and scream for 3 hours a night and do it all again the next day. :slight_smile:

Exactly. I gave ZOS a whirl a few years back and didn’t get as much out of it as from direct vocal coaching. But if Melissa Cross had a proper forum going like this, that would be exactly what I’m looking for! :slight_smile:

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