Is There An Optimum Number Of Practice Hours A Day?

Playing Technique
#61

I’ll respond to you with your own words:

It’s not only genetic potential that you can’t do anything about. Guys like Andy Wood were born in a musical family, he was surrounded by music from the very beginning. Look at Rick Beato’s son who’s got that amazing perfect pitch ability - I don’t deny his talent, but if it wasn’t for his dad who exposed him to music before he couldn’t even walk and then did intensive ear training, there would be no way for him to acheive that level. Even stuff like being born in a rich or poor family - you may fight with your cheap fender squier with string action so high it cuts your fingers in half, while some kid is comfortably learning on a suhr modern his parents bought him.
I’m from Poland, 1989 was the year that communism ended here. I don’t think there’s a single guitar player from our ‘old guard’ who played nearly as good as Yngwie or Vai or any of the american guitar heroes. The quality of gear was terrible when they were learning, and even getting to listen to a tape of Steve Vai was quite an acheivement. Getting a fender stratocaster or marshall amp was something they could only dream about.
I think there are actually more things you can’t do anything about than the ones you can. So…

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#62

The point is not there is no such thing as variation in these characteristics. The point is that the genetic potential for weightlifting is just one thing: a high concentration of fast-twitch muscle fibers, and it is unchangeable. For guitar playing the genetic aspect is spread over many, many characteristics, so no single one is dominant. This makes it less likely that some single variation can create some kind mutant super-guitar-monster. Instead, people bring different combinations of genetic traits in combination. Combinations of qualities are much harder to rank. That generally requires either multiple metrics in combination (such metrics would have to be calibrated against known data, i.e. the measured metrics of players of known ability) or loss of accuracy via simplification.

Furthermore, there is very little reason to assume that genetics is more dominant than environmental factors in the characteristics that lead to guitar ability. Creativity, determination, focus, pattern recognition, etc. are not fixed quantities in a person. They vary over time and can be enhanced or diminished by experiences, training, interest, etc. It’s possible that there is some kind of upper limit to these qualities imposed by genetics, but that’s just supposition at this point.

So, my bottom line:
Does genetic potential for weightlifting exist? Yes.

Does genetic potential for guitar pkaying exist? As far as I can tell, nobody can say for sure.

If it does exist, does it have a strong effect on whether a person can learn advanced guitar with training? Almost certainly not.

Humans are not deterministic machines. Even more than most other animals, our destinies are not determined at birth. Our brains make it possible to overcome many of our genetic limitations, and we can intentionally modify our brains with our behavior (training, learning, studying, practicing, etc.) Genetic potential for guitar playing seems like an utterly useless concept.

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#63

Shawn Lane might be the proof. Having huge hands like Vai or Gilbert makes things easier, for example grabbing wide chords. It’s possible that Paganini had Marfan syndrome. Just my 2 cents.

I agree.

#64

I would think the brain would be the limiting factor since we all have fingers.

We all have brains also but we certainly do not see, solve or approach problems the same way.

I think that wiring is changing constantly from birth.

Super hard if not impossible to quantify why one person panics where another simply boils down the problem.

I also think drugs that make you focus and relax inhibitions can help in the short term but in the long run are not sustainable where sanity is concerned and not worth it.

Don’t ask how I know.

If I can shut my brain up I relax it helps.

My teacher is into meditation as an aid but I cant get into it yet.

I do reach a flow state at times from just playing and play above my normal level.

That is interesting to me.

It tells me if I relaxed that would be my normal level

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#65

https://www.quora.com/How-much-time-do-pianists-practice-per-day

"How much time do pianists practice per day?"

The best and good students would practice 10 hours per week as 10 year olds and 20-30 hours per week in their teens. The poor students were in the 6-10 hour range.

Per day, that’s roughly 3-5 hours daily for the best players vs. 1-2 hours for the rest.

From the studies I read until now, it seems to be totally useless (in terms of results) to practice technique more than 4 hours per day.

I guess that the quality of these 4 hours per day (focus, objectives, practice strategy) is then what really makes the difference between epic players and very good players !

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#66

Another question I have is how long did the greats “require” v.s
How much they actually did.

I have a thought that the tons of hours were a byproduct of the desire
To play and Not necessarily that they required it.

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#67

thats interesting and obviously with 4 consistent hours per day, any1 should be a monster player

the first thought that came to mind though was that piano students are usually doing exercises or playing prewritten pieces whereas rock guitarists are doing a LOT of improvising. So we are making up stuff and creating our repertoire as we go. So more than 4 hrs might be legit for us

as grownups with jobs etc, we have to take into account that we arent going to have a set amount of time that we exactly follow. So on non work days we might go more to like 6-8 hrs with breaks in between. Those could be hours spent FINDING licks and exploring etc…then the other shorter periods during the week could be repeating and drilling what we learned on the longer sessions

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#68

I have accepted that the path Im taking will be slow but thorough.

Meaning I don’t just wire the most commonly used triads on the high strings. I practiced all of the closed voice triads and inversions on all string sets. For sure a bunch of them are rarely used but by doing that Im getting closer to my goal of fretboard freedom.

Honestly if I could get there faster with less work I would but My brain requires being spoon fed lots of details before a bigger picture appears.

It takes forever for the things I practice to start appearing in my playing.

So the things I want to use I have to start chewing on months in advance.

Im not adding much to this convo so Ill hush now but it fascinates me to ponder the hows and whys of a guitarist journey.

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#69

Why do you suppose that the guitarists in the OP list all figured out for themselves how to develop an efficient picking technique without the help of something such as CTC, and yet there are people who post here who claim to have played for 20, 30 or more years and could not figure it out for themselves? Do you believe they just didn’t want it badly enough? That if they had just tried harder and persevered, they too would have achieved that goal? The players listed in the OP had a great amount of creativity and inventiveness (innate characteristics) which when added to great work ethic allowed them to achieve what most people did not and could not figure out for themselves, no matter how hard they tried, no matter how long they persisted.

#70

you are leaving out pure luck lol. How about where someone is born? was it an accident that Eddie, Randy, and George and countless others came out of the same scene? How hard is it to figure out something when the kid next door already has it figured out??

Why do more great hockey players come out of Canada than Florida??

How about Yngwie. Name the number of factors that JUST happened to come together. Sister just happened to bring home a Deep Purple record. Mother just happened to have a large classical record collection. Uncle (IIRC) juts happened to be a producer or something similar and therefore young Yngwie grew up in the studio environment with top gear and mentoring, Mother allowed him to quit school to play his guitar. Take all of that away and maybe he would have been a car salesman

its a pointless argument when u get down to it. Why argue over the one thing we cant change? Why not spend the energy trying to maximize what time we have left??

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#71

Mike Tyson said people think that the most dangerous fighter is the most aggressive ,bigger stronger fighter… he isnt… it’s the guy that’s relaxed, enjoying what he does… the happier fighter…

So much of practice and playing must revolve around your love for the instrument and keeping things fun…

Ad much as I love technical, fast guitar, it would mean nothing without passion, fire, and emotional content…

It’s was yngwies vibrato, bending, phrasing and note choice that truly blew me away…

At the end of far beyond the sun, the climax where he plays unaccompanied. … listen to that bend and the vibrato on those very last notes…

Incredible. For me it’s all about staying focused and keeping things varied and interesting.

I think brain supplements help…
Krill oil,…

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#72

haha, just heard an ad for Krill oil yesterday lol (maybe God trying to tell me something hehe)

#73

Let’s suppose, for the sake of argument, that none of these men figured out for themselves how to develop an efficient alternate picking technique through any special amount of creativity, inventiveness, or logic and that they were simply lucky. They stumbled upon a fast, clean, efficient picking technique purely by accident. That leaves the question - what do they do with that technique they’ve found through sheer luck? How would they use it in such creative, musical ways?

It’s that creativity, that inventiveness these men possessed in spades which also gave them the ability to use that technique to improvise and compose some killer music. Before Yngwie had you ever heard a song that sounded like Black Star? Some people claim he was nothing more than a Blackmore rip-off but what did Blackmore write that was anything like Black Star, Far Beyond The Sun or Evil Eye?

It was extremely inventive of him to create those types of compositions. Writing those compositions necessitated that great creativity and inventiveness and brilliance which enabled him to figure out for himself how to pick in an efficient way. His creativity and inventiveness enabled him to practically singlehandedly develop his own genre.

Yngwie grew up in Sweden. There was nobody next door who had figured out how to play like him. There wasn’t anyone n his entire country who had done that either. Paul Gilbert grew up in Pennsylvania. Shawn Lane in TN. They didn’t have anyone next door who had already figured it out either. Those men were innovators.

Sweden in the 1970s when Yngwie was growing up was a barren place for an aspiring rock star to grow up. So he had a Deep Purple record. Millions of kids all over the world had Deep Purple records. The difference is, that record was so special to him because it was the only record with hard rock guitar playing he had! He couldn’t just listen to the radio to hear a bunch of other guitar greats because Sweden was socialist and there was no hard rock or heavy metal music on the radio there. It was a unfortunate place for an aspiring rock musician to be.

So, rather than let his bad luck of being born in a socialist country thousands of miles from the Los Angeles music scene defeat him, he left home at 18 with just his guitar, a few clothes, and his toothbrush. He went to a place where people didn’t even speak Swedish. That was okay though because he learned English. He adapted and overcame in every instance where doing so was necessary to him achieving his goal. He would do whatever was necessary to achieve his goal. He was relentless. The name of his autobiography is “Relentless.”

#74

there is definitely something inside of people who really innovate. But who can say what it is??

if you think its all genetics then why should any of us continue trying to improve? lol

A lot of factors have to come together perfectly to make an Eddie or an Yngwie

Personally I think desire and self belief outweigh everything else. Guys like Yngwie, Eddie, Arnold S, Beuce Lee, Ali…they dont really have thoughts of NOT succeeding. Was that born into them or did it get put there somehow? who knows

Ali himself said it best. He said, contrary to belief, champs were NOT made in the gym. Rather it was something inside of the person

Those guys were simply going to find ways to make things happen

some of us arent quite so lucky and we have negativity and self doubt instilled in us pretty much from the womb and we have to fight it every single day. Once you are behind the curve, you are behind the curve

But wasting time bemoaning our genetics or childhood issues wont help us get where we want to be.

“seek and you shall find” “knock and the door shall be opened”

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#75

Seriously? That’s a little like asking “If there are guys with I.Q.s of 190, why should we even bother educating ourselves if we’re only of average intelligence”? You still want to make the most of what you have don’t you? Besides, until you give it 100 percent of your effort, you’ll never know what your musical potential is!

#76

well yeah thats my point lol. Thats why Im not getting where u r going by harping on these peoples “great genetics”

whats it got to do with us? I believe we can ALL reach great heights. obviously we may take longer but so what

even amongst the elite there is massive variation anyway. A lot of it depends on what u r exposed to. Why didnt Eddie develop the same picking and harmony that Yngwie did? Why didnt Eddie or Yngwie or George have the theory knowledge of Satch?

A lot of it is what one is exposed to. All of us here together in this laboratory can find the answers

More power to my heroes, Eddie, Jimi, Jimmy, Yngwie, Jake, Michael S etc. But what have they done lately?? if I didnt still believe I had great music in me I would have stopped trying (and improving) long ago

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#77

im so freaking dedicated im not even going to work today! Im gonna do scales and licks!

(that foot of snow may have something to do with it)

#78

God is always trying to tell us something !

-|- :heart:

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#79

Honestly, I created the thread to discuss what different people believe to be optimal regarding number of hours per day of practice. That’s why I started the thread.

along the way, someone wrote “…“talent” isn’t very useful when it comes to specifying what it takes to be great.” Until that was posted I had not brought up talent or genetic potential. However I read that and since I believe otherwise, the discussion became somewhat sidetracked from the actual subject. That’s OK. Discussions take varying paths all the time. It’s in the nature of human interaction.

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#80

trust me brother, I know lol

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