Is this string hopping? (Mandolin)

There is a very common picking pattern in classical mandolin which goes down down up, where you sweep across two strings with a down stroke and then do an upstroke on the second string to produce a fast triplet effect. In this example, however, Caterina Lichtenberg is skipping over a string in between the two downstrokes. The only instruction she gives is to jump over the string. Is this string hopping? What is the mechanic if not?

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The jump… Swiping…?

This is great. Her motion looks so graceful that I believe she’s not stringhopping at all :wink:

I do the DDU pattern myself, and can do the DDU with the jump as in the clip. But I feel there’s a point of resistance in doing that when you speed up that is probably a clue of stringhopping. Going full alternate provides more speed with no risk of putting your muscles at risk.

That said the DDU pattern (w or w/o jump) is beautifully sounding, more fluid - as opposed to the forward roll, full alternate which sounds more syncopated.

Now I don’t know about Mandolin, but on the guitar the typical DDU, like Brad Davies does, uses DWPS to be efficient. But with the jump pattern I think too much of pick slant would bring you downright in stringhopping territory, obviously. I believe a way to sort it out is to do it more in a crosspicking way, that is with a flatter pick angle that swings over the strings. It seems to me it is what she does here.

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Caterina is great! I love her technique and we were going to contact her for an interview when we did Joscho Stephan since she’s not too far away in Germany. We decided against it just to keep the scheduling madness to a minimum.

Caterina has two techniques, a supinated crosspicking technique and a uwps tremolo motion. She’s great at both. This is basically her crosspicking technique here, with repeated pickstrokes. Yes, repeated pickstrokes are inefficient.

Whether or not what you’re seeing here is ā€œstringhoppingā€ is sort of a moot point. The definition of stringhopping is repeated muscle usage. The idea is that people don’t realize they are doing something inefficient because they’re say, well, I’m doing downstrokes and upstrokes, what could be wrong with that? But here there is no mystery. Two downstrokes is always going to use the same or similar muscle groups so we don’t even have to ask the question.

With regards to string hopping, a think a good definition would be: ā€œMore vertical movement than horizontal.ā€

I say this as more vertical movement creates that pecking motion that is essentially wasted time in the air.
More horizontal gives a slight bob motion, but is far more efficient, like steve morse in the CtC videos?

In my understanding it’s more about the alternation of muscles than the size/curvature of the movement (although the two things may correlate): if there is a muscle that is being used both for the upstroke and the downstroke, then you are hopping.

I don’t make the terminology of course.
Just seems to me hopping has a very vivid image of, hopping. Anything else is confusing no?

If one’s alternate picking is speed limited by motions working inefficiently or against each other, there are likely things that may be adjusted. But yeah, now that CtC is heavily into cross-picking, I’m not sure the motion discussed in the original videos is necessarily easily lumped into one category.

Ms. Lichtenberg seems the essence of efficiency. Thanks for introducing her playing here, @Abiasula!

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Size of the motion and ā€œwasted timeā€ is not what makes stringhopping stringhopping. In the strictest sense, it’s when you try to use the same muscle on the downstroke and the upstroke. This makes it less efficient at every size of motion compared to true alternate picking.

That’s the thing with economy or efficiency - it’s not ā€œsizeā€, it’s a ratio. Like ā€œmiles per gallonā€, it’s a measure of how much you put in versus how much you get out. A true alternate picking motion is still the most efficient way to play a note regardless of how many notes are being played per unit of time, and regardless of how much distance is being covered. The same note or distance with a stringhopping movement will require more input for that output, or even flat-out be impossible.

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That certainly makes sense. Like a kangaroo bouncing.
Perhaps I associate the word hopping with that motion to much.
What is the movement Eric Johnson was doing? The one you first highlighted as a speed limiter in the early videos?

down down up is generally classic crosspicking.

I think a reliable double-escaped picking motion has a good amount of both V & H, but it feels like a single, straight picked motion.

If I feel like I’m making a ā€˜curved’ motion… then I am usually doing it very inefficiently, and I need to take a break.

If she is using uwps for tremolo how does she change strings as the last pick stroke on each tremolo will be an upstroke?

I haven’t spent a huge amount of time looking at different examples of Caterina’s playing, but in all the examples I’ve watched, her tremolo string changes are typical uwps, i.e. occur after downstrokes.