Is your chosen technique viable for the long term health of your joints?

Playing Technique
#1

AT 2:35 of this video with Steve Morse he explains his original picking technique and then goes on to say that years of that approach had worn away the cartilage in his wrists to the point where he can no longer pick like he used to.

Now he must use a sloppy version of elbow picking and a physical muting tool that he wraps around the nut and is just a mere shadow of who he used to be as a guitar player which is very sad.

So what technique approach lends towards the greatest longevity?

My personal approach is reverse dart thrower with DSX. I’m curious if this lends towards optimal wrist health or if a rotational picking might be more ergonomic?

1 Like
#2

I’m pretty sure Arthritis runs in Steve’s family so it was probably inevitable regardless of his picking technique which I must say back in the day was absolutely unbelievable.
I would probably say anything with the least motion which is kind of obvious right? Yngwie’s technique looks effortless and there’s a lot of players who follow the economy picking school like Rick Graham etc.

Strict alternate picking is very wearing and when you do strict alternate picking across strings (which very people actually do) that’s got to be the most inefficient technique.

#3

I do believe that arthritis was a big culprit in Steve’s deterioration but I also assume that his playing style with all that string skipping and wide arc movements with his wrist expedited and aggravated the symptoms.

Yeah I used to love alternate picking everything on 12 gauge strings but now I like to use a lot more economy picking on 9 gauge strings lol.

#4

FWIW, I was an elbow picker my whole life and it worked great for me. Then, after about 20 years, I got pretty bad tennis elbow from it and am still in the process of reworking things so that I can play like I used to.

#5

Are both of Steve’s wrists worn, or could he learn to play lefty and have a “new” wrist? I’m sure he thought of this and didn’t do it, perhaps his right hand is still good enough for his current needs. Then again, he might become a flamenco master…

#6

John McLaughlin is another player who alternate picks just about everything, and he’s a dozen years older than Steve. He’s also had issues with his wrist, though he says he effectively healed himself through a form of meditation. But all that picking will potentially catch up to anyone.

The best route is to develop a technique that feels easy to you, and probably to avoid engaging in frequent marathon alternate picking sessions.

#7

Yeah that’s exactly what I’m talking about. My concern is committing to a technique that might gradually deteriorate/aggravate my wrist. The video of Steve Morse’s decline was a bit shocking and dismaying.

#9

I dunno if I would want to basically re-learn the guitar by switching my picking and fretting hands haha - that would be such an arduous task.

I wonder if the arthritis affects other parts of his right arm just because his elbow picking is so sloppy with so much excess movement.

#10

I didn’t realize McLaughlin had legitimate issues with his wrist as I saw a recent live performance where he still seem quite nimble. While he’s lost a couple steps with his right hand speed he still seemed to be able to do quite a lot intricate, fast alternate picking as we’ve come to expect from him.

I’m skeptical of his meditation curing his issues but as long as he’s playing it’s all bueno.

#11

Troy has demonstrated that a motion can be massive and insanely fast:

270bpm 16ths is faster than anything Yngwie played, right? What comes closest is probably his pure forearm rotation motion that he uses these days for longer periods of single string playing which coincidently might be his largest motion.

I think this showcases that smaller motions aren’t inherently any better for joint health, your joints are more affected by how optimal your motion is :slight_smile:

1 Like
#12

Jus my opinion: I couldn’t care less about economy of motion, and it’s all about economy of effort and, in Steve Morse’s case, I’ve always had the impression that his playing demanded a LOT of effort since I knew about him 20+ years ago, especially when it comes to playing his signature lines that might be among the most demanding in the guitar universe.

1 Like
#13

I’m starting to think more and more that forearm rotation, from an ergonomic perspective, is the superior picking technique.

It seems that players are able to use forearm rotation for longer periods in a very relaxed fashion - whereas I think that reverse dart thrower/deviation etc seem to have less stamina for long runs.

Yngwie and Eddie pretty much looked like peak relaxation when using their rotational picking.

#14

Yeah Steve Morse licks tend to be very difficult and require a lot of movement with wide arcs.

A lesson to all you string skippers and arpeggio pickers! haha just playing. or am I?

#15

I wonder if this is the reason why formerly wrist players who switched to elbow, such as Zakk Wylde and John Petrucci made that switch.

Imo both players sound worse as a result of switching from wrist to elbow.

#16

I believe he started incorporating that due to Rusty Cooley’s influence, not for any sort health reason. He doesn’t use it all the time.

#17

I’ve noticed him almost always resorting to elbow picking for any fast playing these days. It’s just strange because he objectively sounds much worse using the elbow technique and in the earlier years.

I also mention Zakk Wylde because in his very early videos he picked from the wrist and was very clean and accurate and his tone was great - a far cry from the sloppy mess of a player he is today with his wild elbow picking.

#18

How old are you? Do you have any preexisting condition / injury that could be exacerbated by playing?

From my own experience and others I’ve seen, you won’t know how your body will react to a movement long term (in Steve’s case, probably decades).

In the short term however, you should have pretty easy “tells” as you try things out. Do you have pain that builds up, even after warming up? Does the pain linger afterwards? Do you need time off before you play again?

#19

30s, but no preexisting condition. Well actually more in my elbow from playing PC video games lol but that doesn’t really affect my guitar playing unless my elbow is in a particular position that I can easily avoid.

In terms of my picking hand/wrist I would say I feel no discomfort of any kind really - it all feels smooth and relatively low effort unless I’m really cooking but even then I don’t get overly tense or anything.

My fear, which may be unfounded, is something that may have been developing unbeknownst to me over a long period of time but that will one day suddenly surface and I’ll have some kind of permanent damage.

Seeing the Steve Morse decline really bummed me out tbh. I want to be like Horowitz. playing at a high level even in my late 80s.

#20

How long have you been playing? Have you noticed any changes over time with things like ability / endurance / discomfort?

As someone that is self-diagnosed as a bit of a hypochondriac, I resonate with this, but there’s really no way of knowing. My questions above try to get at seeing changes over time, as chronic injuries happen in the long run.

I would also love to keep all my physical abilities until old age, but I acknowledge that it’s the goal, not a given. Most of my hobbies are physical to some degree (guitar being the least), and the fear of not being able to do what I love is something that I’m sure most people have. Unfortunately, there’s no way of knowing what will happen. All we can do is best prepare in our younger years to increase resilience long term (which I know you’re trying to do specifically here with your picking mechanics, lol).

1 Like
#21

Meh, I disagree. My first motion that I discovered with the help of the forum was a blend of wrist and forearm and it excels on a single string but feels clunky doing anything else.

Probably why Yngwie would use finger motion for multi string playing and Eddie would use wrist :slightly_smiling_face:

1 Like