Funny thing… I started this thread thinking, I’m probably one of few who struggle with this riff…lol I dont feel too bad now…
These dbl picking riffs are tough!!
Why are they tough? This is not a fundamental but important question. What exactly is giving you the issue.
I’m not saying I haven’t or still don’t struggle with it; but it’s important you ask yourself.
I basically struggle to tremolo on the E and A using USX. I can tremolo from 1st to 3rd (USX)…4th is hit and miss. I can tremolo on all strings using DSX so I know how it feels musically. Bark at the Moon is a fun musical riff that I go back to every now and then to test if I’ve found my footing with USX bass string tracking.
Also…the song is so fun…makes me smile everytime.
Correction: This is a fundamental but important question.
You said that it’s harder tremolo on the E and A and use USX. Is it just tremolo or is it double picking, or is it any fast picking? What if you had:—
-------2-3------3-4------4-5--------4-3–𝄇
–2-5------2-5------2-5------2-5---------𝄇
— does the added LH complexity make the right hand any easier? Obviously not, right?
The problems I noticed when playing on the low strings are that when I palm mute, it flattens the hand, removing wrist flexion.
Is your wrist at the same angle on the high strings as it is on the low strings? Or is there a difference? And if there is a difference, how does it affect your USX on the lower strings?
It could also be the thickness of the strings.
Good questions. My wrist does end up more radial. I think I lose my anchor point too. It’s weird…every once in a while I get it then lose it soon after. I’m waiting for it to click…but it’s been a while now. I’m going to get a video together and post it in technique critique soon.
Id love to see a video because I feel trying to tremolo pick on the low E for me is difficult as well. On the other strings, I generally have to pronate and use downward escape to do it well. Although lately I haven’t been tremolo picking well so hopefully that just means my brain is working on creating new connections.
1 Like
My home motion is a pronated DSX too. I’ll to get a video uploaded by next weekend…my week is tight timewise for setting up to film…when I have a magnet however…
Joined the bandwagon. Can’t even play the intro riff at 120 bpm. I wish I had an USX motion by default.
I think it’s pretty obvious what is wrong with my attempt, the group of 4s on the A string are anything but defined, it sounds like an utter mess. Any advice how to practice this as a DSX player?
Here’s an attempt at 120 bpm:
And an other attempt at full speed in the afternoon:
2 Likes
I eventually got this when I was an exclusive DSX’er - I learned to quickly shift my arm position for that A string ‘burst’, then back again for the chord stabs. I took me a long time - this riff can be a real mountain to get over. It’s so fun tho…
A video always helps when looking for this kind of advice.
1 Like
I have no problem with burst of 2 notes on the lower strings and changing to higher strings after an upstroke. But playing 4 notes on the lower string… No way. I noticed it feels more controllable if I pay attention to maintain my DSX arm position for the riff. I’ll record a video, maybe it will be more helpful.
Good to see im not alone in finding this riff challenging…
Another very awesome and equally challenging is the opening riff to midnight love
By fifth Angel
Check it out. Awesome song
4 Likes
The speed and timing of this is what makes it tricky to emulate. I can make it happen by using alternating doubles. I’m sure this is not how Jake plays it. I use an up/down on the E, bring it to the top of the A and down/up on the A, bring it to the bottom of the E and repeat. It takes some time to refine to get clean sounding but feasible.
I use a similar technique for quick 3-notes. MetallicA’s Damage Inc. middle riff has what I think is actually a quick 3-note section that this works very well with. Down pick the open E twice, then get the pick on top of the E note on the A string and quick down/up and on that up keep going and catch the bottom of the open E for a quick 3 note succession, continue down picking the riff.
Similar usage on the end of the Blackened opening riff where I hear a quick 3 note succession that doesn’t sound like all downpick. The part that starts with the Bb chord on the A string, downpick the E string F# and G notes. I like to upstroke next on the A string B note to set up but down pick works also, then the 3 note sequence is a down/up on the A string C note and hit the bottom of the E string F note on the way up for that quick 3 note succession. Continue riff with down pick on the open E.
Thought I’d throw out there. Works well for me but can’t say that’s how they are actually played.
Good luck!
I gave up years ago when trying to play those little fills on BATM, so recently I tried to come back to it with after spending weeks trying to get my picking better with new found knowledge on my picking motions from CtC.
It’s still very hard for me.
I can do it but it sounds messy and requires some super crazy athletics with my picking hand.
I’ll carry on trying though. If it was that easy it would be no fun !
Bark at the moon is one of those songs that happen to be technically challenging, but amazingly catchy! This is a very rare combo. I usually don’t like any progressive metal, not saying this is progressive but the challenge in this whole song is pretty insane if you’re not at this level.
Yea, would love to try this song sometime, but besides the technicals, Jake E Lee does a lot of very interesting stretches when he demonstrated it on Youtube!
I think Jake is under rated.
I was thinking about starting a thread to build a case for Jake vs Randy, but the fact is that Randy was so prolific during his short career. The material speaks for itself.
However:
- Of course Randy was a ground breaking guitarist and songwriter, no one can dispute that. His phrasing is unbelievable and his playing was certainly the foundation for most of the 80s guitar movement. He has been the most influential guitarist on my playing for sure.
- For Jake to come along and learn and play all (most of the hard ones anyway) of Randy’s songs live (without any tabs or internet) as well as adding his own flair in places is a feat deserving praise on its own.
- There are several ground breaking phrases and licks on the BATM album. We all know that Jake’s guitar was unfortunately placed too far back in the mix on that album. Ozzy and his management didn’t trust Jake yet as a guitarist apparently. Come on Ozzy ! Surely the playing speaks for itself ? If the guitar was more prominent the album would be better off.
- I think in terms of technique Jake was ahead of Randy. Jake seemed to me to be a next level combination of EVH and Randy. Just watch his live performances.
- But of course we don’t know what Randy could of done if he had continued so it’s hard to be conclusive on their techniques.
- Jake had his moments as a composer but Randy came up with so much quality and progressive music we can’t compare them there.
What does everyone else think ?
Jake was at the top of his game in the Ozzy years, he had great technique, blistering leads, great rhythm player. He had serious chops at the time. Jake might have been bit ahead of RR in some areas, but when i listen to Randy live… he did so much more than the album, he was a ferocious live player.
Obviously Jake can still play well, but he lost interest in playing guitar like this nowadays. His stuff with RDC is good, and Badlands first album is classic… but he was leaps and bound better in the Ozzy days
I agree that Randy pushed the boundaries further when playing live. I always try and play the live versions of his stuff for that reason. There are exceptions, like the Crazy Train solo final ascending run which is better on the album but on the whole the Tribute versions of his solos are way more cooler than the album versions (Believer and Mr Crowley come to mind).
Jake on the Ultimate Ozzy video is a class act though.
1 Like