Just...How? (Guthrie - Fives Run)

Playing Technique
#1

I am currently working on learning “Fives” by Guthrie Govan…NOT because I will ever be able to learn it. But simply because I feel that trying to learn it will help me to improve my technique and overall understanding.

I can pretty much play everything up to 2:17 (not necessarily good and definitely not all in one go, but I can play each segment).

But then at 2:17 to 2:25, there is this absolute beast of a run:

I just do not understand how this particular un can be played at this speed. And I’m not even really talking about the right hand - I know he is using some legato mixed with alternate picking. But the left hand just blows me away.

Has anyone learned this? Any tips?

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#2

That’s a super cool run :slight_smile:

Do you have it already memorised? have you checked if it’s possible to change the fretting in some places to make it easier?

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#3

I’ve not learned this and not going to lol. Though I’ve had a few experiences thinking something was not really possible but a couple years later I could do it. The best tip is one almost all experts or professionals say, is, never give up.

Time really does fix a lot of things.

I’ve often thought my hands can’t acually move this way, but years later apparently they can. Guthrie has got multiple decades of consistent work on the guitar.

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#4

In my opinion: yes and no :slight_smile: .

Longer version:

E.g. if you practice for 10 or 20 years the wrong thing (like stringhopping) you’ll still end up with the wrong thing in the end.

Finding good strategies / solutions is what makes us better. More time can give more opportunities to find solutions, but only if we deliberately look for them!

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#5

Yeah it is so cool, and so daunting! I do actually have the first half of it memorized and have been practicing that at slower tempos, and I will push the limits at times to try to get a feel for the speed.

I did make a few minor changes to the fretting to accomodate my personal strengths. But that is a good thought, as I could/should probably find even more fretting avenues to make things easier.

The thing about Guthrie’s runs that make them so difficult is that they are often in varying note groupings, and these groups are constantly changing. With someone like JP, I can almost always learn his stuff because, while difficult, the sequences are usually much simpler (for example, a group of 3’s, group of 6, etc that does not change).

#6

Yes good point, that’s 100% correct. I forget to remind myself of that.

This same exact thing happened with JP’s “The Best of Times” solo. At first, I just thought it was impossible. It took me like a year but I eventually got it.

With Guthrie’s stuff, I suppose this is just that next level. I’m also relatively new to Guthrie, so his work has not had much time to marinate in my mind which makes this stuff even harder.

Hopefully this time next year, I will be able to nail it. :metal:

#7

Is there a songsterrr or something of this? Would be fun to learn when it’s not a video lol

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#8

Listening to it again, without doing anything close to a proper transcription, a lot of this seems based on variations of these pick+pulloff ideas that Petrucci uses a lot (and that are very fun to play!):

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#9

I’ve not tried Songsterr yet so I’m not too sure, but if there is one for this, it sounds like a perfect time for me to get it!

#10

I was literally just thinking about this JP video yesterday! I was thinking about the Fatal Tragedy solo, and how it’s been years since I’ve attempted it. The first section of that supposedly utilizes that pulloff/alt picking combo, (though I’m not sure if he picked it all on the original recording).

Anyway though, I think you’re right about Guthrie using a lot of little pulloffs in this solo. In the very first part of that Fives segment, I pulloff a few of those notes on the high E, and again once he reaches the the D string. It definitely helps a lot. The run is still such a monster though, even with these little shortcuts it is a massive challenge.

Even with slowing the video down to 25%, I wish I could see exactly where Guthrie throws in the pulloffs as I feel this could be a nice roadmap.

#11

Second this someone please make a songsterr with tabs lmao

#12

Download the video and use something like Transcribe! or a DAW to go through it systematically. You should be able to hear the pull-offs and hammer-ons and–depending on the video quality–see missing pick strokes and sweeps.

You could also buy the JTC product this came out of here, but the tab quality varies wildly, so I’m not sure you’re guaranteed to get something more accurate than what’s on this vid. Suppose it’s also likely that the vid is just the JTC tabs overlaid.

I’m almost certain Guthrie is not playing what’s tabbed out here, so at least to me it would be quite interesting to have an accurate tab and learn exactly what he’s doing. That said, Guthrie is, IIRC, primarily a DSX player. If you don’t share that preference then you might as well not worry about exactly what he does and instead start re-arranging fingerings, # notes per string and/or pick strokes to make it work with your technique.

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#13

I’ll look into Transcribe, thanks. I have been able make a lot of progress just using YouTube’s slowdown feature (25% and 50% have worked well for a lot of it), but I could deifnitely use something a bit more sophisticated.

And wow I didn’t know about the JTC product for Fives, thanks for that! My monthly subscription for JTC just ended recently, but I may sign up agaib just for that if there is an interactive tab.

And yeah you’re right about the tab - while it has been more accurate thant I initially assumed, there are some parts which clearly don’t match up to Guthrie’s hands.

And great to know about him using mostly DSX. I use more USX, so I often find myself arranging his stuff to accomodate that.