Just isn't "clicking" for me yet

Honestly the reason is this: all of my guitar heroes seem to be wrist pickers (Adrian Smith, Dave Murray, Glenn Tipton, Alex Lifeson, Adam D, Jeff Ling - I don’t see any of these dudes using elbow).

Additionally, I have a younger brother (he’s 40) that can shred like the devil. He’s a wrist picker. I’m close to my brother. We have the same genes. :slight_smile: So I figure if HE can do it, I should be able to too.

Those may very well be weak reasons, but honestly that’s why.

This is very helpful to read! I’ll keep working on controlling the elbow motion.

Interestingly enough, I think I hit shred speed last night with a wrist motion…but it was completely trapped. As soon as I tried to slightly supinate it (for USX), it was gone. Same thing with pronation. It was really weird. I was just trying to use a wrist motion, go fast and was speed limited (as usual). Suddenly, for reasons unknown, I burst into a much faster speed for 1-2 seconds. Then it was gone!

Maybe just a muscle spasm. :grin:

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I’ve never studied any of their mechanics. I’m curious if they’re wrist USX or DSX. If you’d like to play their stuff, it makes sense you need a strategy that gives you the same escape they are getting. BUT, if all or any of them happen to be DSX, you could totally play it with an elbow mechanic. All that said, there are probably plenty who would argue with me, but I feel like wrist is probably the most versatile of all the mechanics. It can do any escape. Maybe, if I get my left hand to get up to speed with my elbow mechanic, then finally make a breakthrough with the rotational forearm USX thing I’ve got on the backburner, I’ll give wrist a try.

Sounds like the randomness I’ve heard Troy talk about when learning a new motion. I’d think this is a good sign. Keep up the good work, buddy!

Hey! @Tommo and I were just going through previous technique critique threads and talking about notable examples of common issues. This idea of switching your form and unlocking a fast / smooth motion is super common and what you’re doing here is an excellent example of that.

One thing I just wanted to point out here is that your arm and wrist are not “locked”. You can see very clearly in this clip that the motion at the elbow joint is much smaller than the motion the pick is actually making. So the elbow is not causing all that motion. The hand is also moving back and forth, which is wrist motion. In fact, to me it looks like the greater share of the motion is actually coming from wrist joint action, not elbow joint action.

You may simply be more aware of the elbow component because you’re tensing stuff in the upper arm. It sounds like you may have had some breakthroughs with the tension aspect already. How are you making out with this since in the interim?

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Thanks for following up with me!

Since this thread went quiet, I’ve continued to work diligently on my picking techniques. COVID certainly has helped with that. I’m blessed to be working from home now and that means I can pick up my guitar in between calls/video conferences.

It has been on my mind recently to record some new videos for further feedback. Hopefully over the holidays I can get that done.

Bottom line is, I’ve made progress. Have I reached my goal of USX wrist motion using angle pad grip? Nope. It’s elusive.

But:

I’ve worked on elbow motion tremolo and can do that much faster and more fluid (with less fatigue and for longer periods of time). But I don’t have the control to switch strings with that motion.

I can now reach shred speeds using a trigger grip, wrist motion! But often my pick strokes are trapped. USX is inconsistent. Downward pick slant is challenging.

Every once in a while, I feel like I’m approaching shred speed with an angle pad grip, wrist motion. It comes and goes.

In conclusion, I’m battling a 34 year old habit. I was a forearm, wrist, elbow hybrid string hopper for all of those years. The Pickslanting Primer, with this forum’s assistance has brought tremendous self-awareness. I know know what USX is, what wrist motion is, etc. and knowing is half the battle.

I’m now a much more articulate picker. It’s hard to describe in words, but picking now feels different. It feels better. But perhaps that’s just the awareness kicking in.

For three months now, I focused a LOT of time on just picking motion. Two weeks ago I decided to spend some time on Eric Johnson’s five note lick. But then I saw a thread in this forum that made me question that leap. It seems like a single string lick is the more logical next step, so two days ago I started on YJM’s six note lick. Honestly that seems more like an exercise in hand synchronization than picking technique, but since I can’t do it well - it’s worth working on! And I understand the importance of playing a single string lick fast to understand what that speed feels like.

Well that’s a lot more than I intended to type. I hope everyone is doing well!

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Thanks for all the details - very interesting. If you can film an update on the progress with the faster motion, that would be interesting to see. Also, we’re working on some lesson updates to the Primer where we’d like to include some real-world examples that new players can look at to know what to expect. The two motions you have here, where the one is obviously working great, would be very instructive for a new player to look at to know how to discern the difference between a motion where something isn’t working, and one that has lots of potential. If you’d be open to letting us use a snippet of these clips, that would be cool. Let us know — but no pressure. Totally fine if not.

Why do you have such a specific goal of using a certain type of escape motion with a certain type of pick grip? Unless you’re auditioning for a Gypsy band, it really shouldn’t matter which specific technique you use. If we have somehow implied that USX is “better”, that’s defintely not the case. Most virtuoso wrist players, and that includes some of the best pickers of all time, like Di Meola and McLaughlin, look more like your motion. Andy Wood’s technique is broadly similar to the form you’re using here, and he doesn’t do USX motion either. The dude can pretty much alternate pick anything. So you’re on the right track here!

Picking motion includes fretting. Weird to say that, but it is in some sense true. I never worked on just the picking hand by itself, like on all open strings, for example. There were no phrases I wanted to learn which worked that way, so it never even occurred to me to do that. As a result if I had to learn a phrase like that, I’d actually have to work on it. I’m much better when both hands are moving, since that’s what I know.

When you’re learning a new physical skill, what you’re learning is the sum total of all motions happening at that time. This is how I think of it. The actual way this works is probably more complex, and there is probably overlapping benefit to doing hands separately, together, and in various combinations. But just as an example of what I’m talking about, it is absolutely commonplace that you can have a picking pattern perfectly on one phrase, and then switch to another phrase with a different fretting hand but identical picking pattern, and you can’t play it. Happens all the time. Either fretting errors, picking errors, or synch errors crop up. So to some very practical extent, your picking technique is really the sum total of all the picking patterns you know, combined with all common fretting patterns, at different speeds and rhythms, learned and corrected over the long haul until they all overlap a little and enhance each other.

This is my very long-winded way of saying, you should not work on just picking motions. You need to work on a wide array of picking and fretting patterns with coordinated hands. To start with, the phrases you choose should match your picking motion. In your case that’s DSX motion. So the EJ five note pattern is not a great example because you need USX and downstroke sweeping for that. Instead, you want to choose phrases where downstrokes are consistently the final note on every string. Of couse single-string playing is fine too. Diversity helps. All these things overlap. But just choose single-escape (or mostly single escape) phrases to start, since that is what your motion does. Over time you can always incorporate other phrase types. That is the beauty of wrist motion. It can do all escapes from one arm position.

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You are more than welcome to use my clips! If they can help explain things to other players, I think that’s fantastic. It’s awesome that you continue to refine and improve the content here at Cracking the Code.

It comes down to the following reasons:

USX was described as a very common (most common?) escape motion. I’d like to be common. I don’t want to be “special”. I’m being a bit over-dramatic, but basically I figure if most people use USX and only a few people use DSX or double escape, then USX is a good goal.

Angle pad grip is what I’ve been using for decades, so the reason behind that is comfort.

Lastly, I just want to emulate my guitar Gods. I don’t see very many elbow motion or trigger grip guys in the guys I admire (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc.)

Maybe not good reasons, but that’s how I came up with that goal. Ultimately it would be amazing to be versatile and be able to do everything well!

I think I’d be more in agreement with this if I were a new player. But in my case, I’m trying to break a 34 year old bad habit of string hopping. I know where the problem is - it’s in my right hand. So that’s where I’m placing all the focus. But every day when I’m playing I’m also working on learning a song, doing some legato exercises and just noodling around. So I do play other things.

For better or worse, my mindset is: I’ve got a bad habit ingrained into my playing over three decades. Repetition is the key to breaking that habit. Just fret a note and let the wrist get those reps in.

I just want to reiterate what Troy is saying - many of the best pickers in history are actually primary DSX players.

One piece of advice that we like to give often on here is: “if you are good at X, do more X!”. That means getting a good few licks under your fingers that work with X (X= DSX for you, at the moment).

Once you experience the feeling of playing fast, clean and effortless with one type of mechanics (with a variety of licks and riffs), you will know what it should feel like when you explore other types of mechanics (such as USX in your case).

Thanks! We’re working on these new lessons now and your examples will come in handy.

And again, your motion is not pure elbow. If you watch the first few seconds of your clip above, you’ll see the hand is moving more so than the arm. So that’s wrist motion. Later on it becomes more elbow, but looks like the wrist is still moving at the same time. This type of wrist motion, and elbow motion, both move the pick along the same path, so it is common to see them working together in various blends. This variation in blending between joint motions is common in the early stages of learning a new motion, and as you learn to differentiate them by feel, you will develop the ability to turn them on and off.

As @tommo is saying, wrist and wrist/elbow DSX are some of the most common picking motions in guitar history. Both Paul Gilbert and Bruce Bouillet from Racer-X have similar motions on the wrist side. I was just watching this earlier today. Amazing stuff:

Bruce looks like mostly wrist motion, but then around the 18 second mark you can see the elbow start to fire up. Why? Don’t know, but these blends are common.

But I wouldn’t worry too much about how commonplace a technique is. While there may be many small details that differentiate various players, when you look at the bigger picture of which joints are actually moving, there really aren’t that many different types of approaches. So in a certain sense all of these techniques are “common”, and we can find examples of super-capable players with just about every technique we look at. The name of the game is developing fluidity with any of them as a starting point. Once you have that, you can always add different motions over time.