Mechanics of sweeping

[marlowe]

Hey all!

This is my first time posting in the forum. I’d just like to express how amazingly helpful CtC, Troy and everyone on the forum has been for me. Thanks everyone!

I’ve been thinking more about the mechanics of sweeping as I think this technique has its own mechanical nuances as just like alt. picking. Is there a possibility of a deeper exploration into sweeping technique?

I have been working on my economy picking and on sweeping techniques in general for about 18 months and I have incorporated this into my playing - to a limited extent. It is quite inconsistent for me. Sometimes I slip out of time or I lose the fluidity at higher speeds, especially with small sweeps (economy picking). There is also the problem of strong beat accents. I cannot get enough control to vary my accents on different notes in a swept phrase, or swing notes effectively.

No doubt many of the mechanical movements are the same or similar, but it does not help me to think of simply pushing with a slant through the strings, and many players I admire seem to have different things going on. Tony Rice, Adam Rogers are two that come to mind.

I have started using crosspicking instead, but there are some things which just need to be swept.

Any thoughts?

[Troy]

Is there a possibility of a deeper exploration into sweeping technique?

There really isn’t one answer to this, because just about every joint in your arm can be used for this, from your shoulder to your fingers! So you’re right that’s a cool and complicated topic. I would suggest that it might depend on the kind of line you’re playing.

For example, the big, straight-line, five- and six-string arpeggio type line can be done with “whole arm” type movements that we talk about in our 2017 live interview with Michael Angelo Batio.

For smaller distances, you can check out our Teemu Mantysaari Interview, where we discuss sweeping a fair amount. He has a lot of good ideas not just for cool lines to play, but also practice tips for getting the hands working separately and then together.

For Adam Rogers type stuyff I’d check out our Jimmy Bruno interview. He’s an extensive economy player and there is a lot of interplay between alternate and sweep happening there. A good amount of that appears to be elbow.

Finally we have our interview with Frank Gambale coming up approximately next week. You’ll get a very clear, closeup look at the way he does things. In Frank’s case the movements are very clear, and involve totally reorienting the pick attack with a few arm adjustments and finger adjustments, depending on the direction of the line.

Just a few suggestions.

[tommo]

@Troy

For Adam Rogers type stuyff I’d check out our Jimmy Bruno interview. He’s an extensive economy player and there is a lot of interplay between alternate and sweep happening there. A good amount of that appears to be elbow.

Hi Troy, when you do “elbow DWPS” (or more precisely elbow dwps with escaped upstrokes ) like in the video below, does your asceding sweeping mechanics look similar to Jimmi Bruno’s? Note: I’m thinking more of a 3nps-type ascending line than a full multi-string sweep. Thanks!

Elbow USX - How does it work? For the Forum

[Troy]

@tommo

Hi Troy, when you do “elbow DWPS” (or more precisely elbow dwps with escaped upstrokes ) like in the video below, does your asceding sweeping mechanics look similar to Jimmi Bruno’s?

Are you asking if I can play a 3nps scale using sweeping and elbow movement? I think so! Meaning, I think there at least some elbow involved. Technically there would also have to be arm/shoulder involved because the elbow only moves away from the guitar, so I perceive that happening as well.

But for sweeping, no escaping is necessary, so the ‘mystery’, so to speak, of how the escaping is happening, which was what we were talking about the thread where we posted that clip, I don’t think really applies here. In other words I’m not really perceiving any type of “dwps” pickslanting angled motion or upstroke escaping when I do 3nps “elbow”.

If you force me to try and play Jimmy type lines where you have 1wps and escaping in both directions, then I think I probably just start using wrist motions in addition to whatever elbow. I don’t really work on this so I’m not super smooth with it and it’s hard to tell. I’d probably have to do this for a few months and then film it and see what I think is going on.

Edit: Keep in mind, also, that in general when it comes to sweeping, the “sweeping” motion is different from the “escaping” motion. Sweeping is a completely trapped motion. This highlights even further the reason why the pickslant and the picking motion are separate. This is pretty clear in the upcoming Gambale interview. When he escapes for alternate, it’s obviously a different motion then when he’s pushing through the strings, even when the two movements are combined in a single phrase.

[Acecrusher]

@Troy Have you made a video similar to the one posted above except for Elbow Upward Pickslanting? That would be interesting to see!

[DJ_Ddawg]

Elbow Upward Pickslanting is really common. Just be pronated- Lift the pinky side up, and then extend and Flex the elbow joint. Same motion path as wrist deviation.

[DJ_Ddawg]

I have a question on Sweeping that’s been in my mind since all this 2WPS has been figured out from a single Arm Position (Supinated or Pronated).

The pick still needs to have a visible slant in the direction of the sweep?- otherwise you have he garage spike issue- even though you can alternate pick lines with 2WPS since DWPS and UWPS can exist from one position without having to switch between Supination and Pronation.

Is there a way to change the visible slant of the pick to allow 2 Way Sweeping without Rotating my Arm Position all over the place to change the slant?

[Troy]

The pick still needs to have a visible slant in the direction of the sweep?

I don’t know. Is there anyone who sweeps with zero visible pickslant change? You wouldn’t think Rusty was reorienting, but the slow motion sweep example in this clip shows clearly that he is:

Is there a way to change the visible slant of the pick to allow 2 Way Sweeping without Rotating my Arm Position all over the place to change the slant?

It’s clear that both grip and arm position play a role. And it’s also clear there are different ways to do this. Players like Frank Gambale will make very obvious grip changes and somewhat less obvious arm changes. Players like Rusty appear to be making [mostly?] wrist/arm changes. And even then, what he is doing is so incredibly subtle that you have to ask yourself if it’s even worth worrying about from a learning perspective.

I’ve seen a lot of clips on here of players talking about their “two way pickslanting” and how one direction feels different than another, and I can’t even see any change at all in the clips they post. The only substantive difference in terms of one string change or another is the direction of the picking motion.

So I think it’s possible that for certain styles of doing this, where the adjustments are so tiny, not worrying about it at all is possibly the best approach. And other styles, like what Frank does, might boil down to something like “worry about the grip, don’t worry too much about the arm”.

Something simple like that.