Not so sure about that, Drew - if the neck twists even a touch, you’re going to have intonation problems. Though I’m speculating here, I’d assume that one of the specs for a good neck blank on pricier guitars is consistency of grain, mass, etc. A cheap neck, if it’s got that kind of inconsistency to it, is not going to remain straight and stable when stressed by humidity or other factors.
There you’ve got me. I don’t have enough experience to contradict this; you may be right. I just know that the tiniest things affect intonation.
Do you feel like maple necks are more stable than rosewood for this reason? (I prefer rosewood just because practically, I don’t want to need to refinish a mape or worry about the effects on it from redressing frets or light sanding, which is good when cleaning. But willing to rethink this.)
If the neck twists, you’re going to have problems for sure - notes choking out and irregular action being far and away the biggest. Intonation, though, how “in tune” fretted notes will be over the length of the neck, isn’t going to be one of them, unless the bridge saddles are all out of whack, or the frets are physically in the wrtong places. Where I would expect an unstable neck to start to impact intonation would be if the action rose to the degree that fretting a note was pulling it sharp from the distance you had to displace it to reach the fretboard. That would be awfully high action, and playablity would be first and foremost where you’d be suffering here.
Maple or rosewood fretboards? The fretboard is, bigger picture, a pretty small part of the neck. I wouldn’t exoect this to be a factor. If you’re talking about an entire neck made out of rosewood, though, I’ve only seen one or two all-rosewood necks, so I can’t really say.
It’s not common on Fenders, outside f the custom shop, but roasted maple does tend to be more stable than reglar, simply because it’s entirely devoid of moisture.
That said, for a conventional maple neck… neck blanks that are so bad they actually warp are exceedingly rare. Even a Squier, as an affordable guitar, is not likely to have a neck actually warp on you.
Not trying to be argumentative here, just getting educated… Warpage, or twist, will mean that you’ve changed the distance between the saddles and nut - and not uniformly. That should affect intonation, it would seem. Is there something I’m not factoring in?
(Re: my question about maple vs. rosewood… Since maple fingerboards are varnished, as you pointed out, they are less susceptible to moisture - so perhaps cheaper ones twist less than cheap rosewood. But I know now that you’re not of the mind that cheaper necks warp more, so…)
I didn’t really read through all the posts but I do have a bit of advice. I’ve rebuilt a few guitars. From stripping the paint/repainting to electronics.
This involves buying a older guitar though. Look for a 90s Peavey Predator. Basically a strat copy. They’re pretty good guitars on their own but the necks a renowned for being super comfy. Probably could get one for $150-$175. Ripe for upgrades.
I bought one just to frankenstrat it. As well as upgrading one I had for 20 years. The first attempt on the one I had for 20 years ended in failure due to inexperience, but the second one is a monster.
I put in locking tuners, Wilkinson bridge, fat 59’s, upgraded the pots and did EJ wiring. Maybe $500 total.
The video is me demoing the MXR ethereal reverb sound but the guitar sounds great if you ignore the digital distortion.
Aside from the fact that I own a Gibson SG Standard and Hagstrom Ultra Max, I modded mine, put in locking Fender tuning machines, Wilkinson PUPs, Graphtech nut, saddles, shielded all cavities, added a treble bleed circuit, replaced the budget 5 position switch and rewired the tone circuit so is first neck only and second middle + bridge. Overall a big improvement from the stock Squire making it quite more fun to play. Later on, and for less than the cost of the mods, I decided to get an Ibanez RG450MB and it has become my main go to guitar. However, if I had to choose to do it all over again I wud still mod the Squire as I feel there is a sense of pride in what you own and play.
Not trying to be argumentative here, just getting educated… Warpage, or twist, will mean that you’ve changed the distance between the saddles and nut - and not uniformly. That should affect intonation, it would seem. Is there something I’m not factoring in?
Not necessarily is my experience for the neck to have a subtle or slight twist to it as is the case with many budget Squires. Mine suffers from the same thing as what the OP has described but overall a non issue when it comes to intonation, staying in tune or playability.
This may be a bit of a pickle but all I am saying is that I too have come to notice that my Squire has a slight or apparent neck twist. We have yet to talk about Stratitis which was pretty obvious with mine and spent many hours filing down the fret ends. Perhaps temparature and or humidity from the manufacture to then sitting in storage for long periods of time is plausible for this. Just know that I am not looking to bash on the product but after all it is a low budget guitar and for the money is a great instrument to get started on. With that said my main focus here was to relay that there is only so much you can do with upgragdes before the product is no longer an original which at that point one might be better off looking at something else unless of course this is what you are lookin to do - create your own Frankenstrat.
In my list of things to NOT replace on a Squier, there are two things: body and neck. Anything else - sure, why not? Tuning machines, if they bother you. Electronics (pots, switches, cables, condensers) for sure - if it’s going to be your main guitar, or if you use the volume/tone a lot. Bridge and saddles, almost definitely. Pickups: maybe. Cheap pickups can sound surprisingly good.
If the neck is bad, return it. But there’s absolutely no reason for it to be bad. If you need to file a few fret ends, so be it.
I hear the respect for Squier’s product coming through.
Ok, gonna’ try to learn more about the way the wood is sawn, and maybe then I’ll have a better question or two regarding… I myself may have lost sight of the OP!.. whether or not souping-up a Squier gives you a solid instrument (especially regarding the neck vis a vis intonation).
In theory, yes, it. could impact intonation… but, for it to make a detectible impact in how “in tune” the neck was across the fretboard, it would have to be warped or twisted to the point of unplayability. It’s essentially a moot point, because you’d have far bigger problems before it got even close to bad enough to impact intonation.
Maple necks are finished because unfinished maple is more susceptible to moisture. A rosewood fretboard isn’t finished, because it’s a much denser, more oily wood that really isn’t all that permeable and susceptable to shifting with moisture. I suppose it’s possible one is potentially more prone than the other, but I would expect the differences to be small enough to be irrelevant, in practice. Personally, I play mostly guitars with maple fretboards, simply because I like maple. Neck stability hasn’t been an issue though for my maple fretboard OR rosewood fretboard necks (or the guitar or two with an ebony board I owned at one point or another, for that matter).
So about quarter-sawn neck blanks, which custom shops offer… The advantage is stability, but if you don’t feel that your guitars have appreciable twist, then I’d guess you don’t feel that any of the various other kinds of warpage is much of a factor either. Do you feel that quarter-sawn is just ‘bells and whistles’?
(…Just got an email back from Warmoth about quarter-sawn; $40 extra on a neck that runs ~$200 rift- or flat-sawn)
I added my 2 cents earlier (theoretically might be helpful if you travel a lot). But here’s another anecdotal factor to consider: very few “signature model” guitars use quartersawn maple necks. Now, utility isn’t the only factor that goes into the specificiations of a signature guitar, but if there were a huge practical difference, wouldn’t more signature guitars use it? (There are some that do, Guthrie Govan springs to mind, but they are few and far between).
Seems you can get a custom Fender for around $3500-$4000; some say close to double that for a ‘Master Built’ model. I downloaded Fender Custom’s menu of features and you can specify flat-, rift- or quarter-sawn for the neck. Now on a high end guitar (at least for Fender) like that, if quarter-sawn truly makes such a difference, why even allow for the lesser grades of wood?
Like you say, @Frylock, anecdotal - but definitely not ‘fake news’ either (hey, it’s Nov 3 - had to get at least a little political;)
Some people claim that a quarter sawn neck will sound different than a flat sawn neck, as well, @Frylock. This seems Eric Johnson levels of OCD to me, and honestly I’d have to go check to see if my guitars are quarter or flat sawn and I’m having a busy day so I’m only here for a few sentences, but again, at the end of rhe day, if the wood’s been well dried (pretty baseline condition for a large maker), this shouldnt be a major factor.
Broken record here, but guitar necks twisting and/or warping are a VERY rare issue even on cheap or budget guitars that have’t been totally abused. I wouldn’t worry about it much.
Big takeaway from John Suhr re: flat saw vs. quarter sawn necks:
“My opinion after building guitars for 40 years is there is basically zero difference.”
Suhr offers it merely because enough customers ask for it.
Remember, I’m talking about a cheap guitar, not one of those Suhr beauties. Suhr says they dry their wood well. I imagine that Squier flat-sawn necks are less stable than his for this reason. Still, good to know this about higher-end instruments in general (assuming of course that the maker is as particular about curing).
Has your own Squier neck warped on you? Do you know a lot of people who have had Squier necks warp on them? Is reddit jammed full of people posting about how a Squier neck warped on them?
What are you hoping to achieve? If you’re looking for a neck that is guaranteed to never warp, get something made from some kind of resin or carbon fiber instead of wood.
You are imagining a large risk where there is in reality an extremely small risk. And what are the stakes? For the price of a new top-of-the-line production model Fender Strat, you could buy the Squier Classic Vibe version and replace it three times. With three chances to replace the guitar outright, the chance that you’ll be “trapped” with a neck that develops a stability related problem before you die becomes pretty close to zero.
At this point, I think you’re stressing about about whether Smirnoff will get you as drunk as Grey Goose will. If there’s something you like better about Grey Goose, fine, buy what you like. But don’t imagine that there’s really much functional difference.
Yeah, I take your point. In a long thread the main thrust sometimes vanishes, though, so to reiterate: my thing was whether it’s realistic to mod-up a Squier to where tonally, mechanically (e.g. stability) and playability-wise it will perform like or at least close to an American Standard production Strat.
I was focused on whether you can keep the original neck, and was assuming that many other components would ultimately get swapped-out. (That’s my intention, anyway.)
BTW… why the bother? Why not just plunk down the $1500+ and skip the whole mod thing? a) I like working on my own guitars; b) paying private school tuition for multiple kid$; c) want to take my time to learn more about bridges, more about the various truss systems, etc. etc., one thing at a time; d) bit a of a control freak;)
I’d say at this point, I’ve got the answer to my question. (Viz. probably yes.)
