I have a problem which is very simple, but a problem I keep going back to - I simply can’t get my pick go in the correct direction, especially when strumming, unless my arm is almost parallel to the neck. I simply do not see how it is possible to use your wrist, with the curved motion. without at least a lot of assistance from other joints. Even with the assistance of other joints, I’m still struggling. I’ll demonstrate the nature of my problem with this video. I’m sorry, it’s a bit long for a video on this forum, but I feel like the only way to really explain properly is to demonstrate my movement and narrate it.
Stick your hand out in front of you, palm facing ground, now let your wrist go limp, then rotate your forearm back n forth, this is the position and action that allows fast strumming. It’s a forearm rotation with a bent wrist. Roughly, adjust it to comfort.
I’m struggling to really understand your problem with singel string picking. It looks and sounds good to me. You seem to do fine with both string switching, tone and sync. But I get that it doesn’t feel right.
You seem to play with a deviation-movement, that’s actually really common. Personally I used that movement for a long time, although in UWPS mode, and for me this never felt really relaxed. Changing to a rotational forearm movement changed it all for me. Now picking single note lines feels really relaxed and natural to my body. I know a lot of other guitarist feel the opposite about forearm rotation. But to me it really feels right. And it’s also connected to normal strumming technique that WhammyStarScream is describing.
Have you had any experimentation with that motion mechanic?
Why is a pickstroke at an angle like you’re talking about here, that isn’t perfectly perpendicular to the plane of the neck, a problem? I guarantee you that when I’m picking and strumming, as another guy with a significant contribution from wrist deviation in his picking mechanic, that my pick is moving at an angle through the strings, rather than perfectly perpendicular to the orientation of the neck. It hasn’t stopped me at all, and in fact as you sort of allude to in your post rather obliquely, it adds a bit of an angle to the pick, relative to the strings, which helps it not “catch” on the string as much.
It’s clearly working - your playing sounds great here - and if there’s some arbitrary rule that the pick should move straight up and down over the strings, then I’ve certainly never heard it.
Tough to see what exactly Govan is doing in his video here due to the frame rate, but he’s clearly using a very different series of movements to move the pick around than you are. And that’s fine.
I… oh. I just thought this was a given. Honestly, I’ve been watching Troy’s videos many, many times and it does look like the vast majority of the players are playing perpendicular to the neck. It could be an optical illusion - I think Troy even mentioned that, but I thought I just misinterpreted it. In that video of Joscho Stephan strumming, it looking like it’s going slightly diagonally, but when from Troy’s neck view, it looks pretty straight.
I’m pretty sure it was Allen Hinds who said he once had the exact same problem with his picking, which is why he went to legato (which is great too, and something for which I actually do have an aptitude, but I much prefer the percussive nature of picking)
Hmmm, I could be wrong, but I thought when I was picking it was pretty straight - I adjust my wrist by bending it back, like a very mild Marty Friedman - uncomfortable, but that’s how I achieved that arbitrary rule.
Yeah, I think I usually use a combination of both for strumming. I really don’t like to use the forearm for picking though, at least not exclusively - I tried it for a long time and I found it very difficult not to get the pick snagged. I think I use it a bit when I’m dwps, but I’m honestly not sure - see, when I dwps, the body of the guitar gets in the way (sometime I stick out a bit more of the pick to mitigate this) but I just found, for me, that a straighter motion leads to less cause of pick snag. I’d love to see the way you do it - Troy mentions using this motion in his Four Essential Movements video (one of the first I watched) and his pick seems to move very differently to when I do it - quite straight, although it looks like his whole forearm was also moving up and down when he did it, and I always thought he must have had to mix that movement with wrist deviation like he often appears to. Could you link me your picking motion, if you have a vid?
For me, the saving grace is the arm movement - I mention in the vid that the hand is led by the part of the hand closest to the wrist, but I can’t find a way to achieve this without moving the whole arm a little bit - I really would love to figure out how players do manage to avoid moving the arm at all, or if they really are avoiding it at all - I notice that most of the players troy films, including Troy himself have their whole hand move in that manner.
Also thanks for the compliments guys - I will say, my playing isn’t consistent, and I was having a good night - also just came back from a gig, for which I had to do a lot of last minute rehearsing, so I basically was playing for about ten hours that day.
Hey guys - so I just gave the method of “not worrying about the direction of the pick” a try. Also reintroduced the wrist rotation - this is actually working very nicely so far, strumming is pretty effortless, single note picking feels better, a few inconsistencies but it’s much more comfortable, and I was only 5 minutes into playing when I recorded this. I think you guys may have cracked my personal code! I can’t thank you enough. Please excuse that lick where I apparently forgot how to do vibrato properly, and the failed Battery riff.
As said before, I think your picking sounds great and seem to work nicely. I’m happy that you feel an improvement. Sometimes the most important thing is how you think about a certain movement. That can totally change the feel of it.
I’m not sure that you need more advice but just to expand on the rotational thing… I know the feeling of the pick snagging up in the strings. For me it took a lot of experimentation with angles, amount of supination, edge picking and tactile reference points, before I could get some kind of reliability with this technique. I also really wanted to avoid moving my arm when tracking different strings and the rotational movement seem to really work for this. Doing the picking movement with rotation seem to free up the wrist deviation movement for string tracking. It’s not perfect for me yet but I feel a big difference from before.
As far as I can see in your new vid, you use some rotation on the slower parts but when speeding up, which to me sounds great by the way, I see more of the deviation style movement. If you’re still interested I might be able to post a video just so you can see the way I do it. But the again, not sure you need it.
If it’s not too much trouble, I certainly would like to - always like to see the many different ways of achieving something. But no worries if it’s a hassle, it’s certainly something with which I’ll experiment either way
Actually there can even be advantages to the pick going diagonally, e.g. the effective distance between the strings becomes larger. Also, you get some edge picking for free even without the “thumb bump”.
Your strumming is great in the above video! Any idea how you do it? I couldn’t strum to save my life!
Not really sure what you’re referring to by “direction of the pick” but I will add to the chorus of responses about this mostly looking fine! Only suggestion here is that most clips you’ve posted are of the play fast, then stop, play fast, then stop variety. Unclear how much the hand synchronization is happening here, but it’s not super off.
Since you seem to have movements which are working, it would be a good idea to compose or transcribe some kind of lead line or piece that you want to play and work on that. And then try and do that smoothly with good hand synchronization, with whatever attack / articulation you’re looking for, and so forth. In other words, you’re starting to put this together on the mechanical level so I wouldn’t spend huge amounts of time worrying about those. You can feel free to turn off that part of your brain and think more big picture about whether things sound and feel smooth, synchronized, and musical.
Again, try not to do hours and hours per day on this - it’s counterproductive. I know that when it comes to practice it’s easier to feel like you’re “doing” something when you have a guitar in your hands. But try and get your mind into the idea that time away is also doing something important, because it is.
Oooh, thanks! I’m using a mixture of a few movements - I think of my whole arm as a whip - the movement starts with a small amount of elbow movement in conjunction with the forearm rotation, and I just keep my hand very relaxed to the point of being limp. I think there’s a bit of supination happening but it’s more or less a result of the hand being limp and being taken for a ride rather than a conscious movement.
So great to hear from the man himself! I thought that the pick was supposed to travel in a perfectly perpendicular direction in relation to the neck, like so
I’m very keen to hear your thoughts on this one. I swear I heard at one point, early in my playing, that this was a necessity, but the general consensus, opposed by virtually no one, is that I was misinformed.
If you place your hand on the guitar and move only your wrist, does it trace that arrow? No, right? That’s because the wrist joint doesn’t move that way. In fact it doesn’t trace either of those arrows. It traces a semicircle, like a windshield wiper, that looks more like the second arrow than the first arrow. Elbow motion traces the same semicircle, just a lot bigger.
In short, no, the pick doesn’t have to move perpendicular. In fact, there is no single joint that actually moves that way.
The joint or joints you use determines the path the pick follows. Or, the path you want to follow determines which joints you have to use. However you want to look at it. We did an entire lesson on this subject, which you can watch right here if you like:
Honestly I wouldn’t worry about this too much. There is no right or wrong. If you want a refresher on the different motions and how they work, you can watch the intro to picking motion again:
But for the mean time if you have a motion that is working, I would worry more about whether it is smooth, effortless, synchronized, and so on.
Yes, semi circle would have been more accurate! My skills at paint are nonexistent, took way too much effort to draw a straight arrow. That’s exactly been my problem! I thought that all of these players were doing some invisible thumb/knuckle thing, or doing something with their arm that I couldn’t figure out to go perpendicular. So I was putting in so much effort to make that motion straight. This is a godsend, thanks so much Troy, and everyone! You’ve made this guy very happy. For the first time ever, it actually feels like I’m practicing music on the guitar instead of battling it trying to find a proper motion and finding it impossible to play when standing up especially. This means I don’t have to contort my arm into ridiculous positions and can simplify my movements. I honestly feel like I can play the guitar now. I only wish I thought to post that video sooner, but you live and you learn.
