Nearly two years of crosspicking no progress

Technique Critique
#45

Wanted to thank everyone and post a little update. I was experimenting on my archtop instead of my 335, and with a new string set and I think this is the best that triplet roll has sounded so far; at least when I’m playing it on the middle strings. I think this is a mostly wrist motion but I’m not entirely sure and it’s not reproducible yet at all. I’ll try the etude tomorrow, have had a busy day today between work and gym. March 26, 2022 - YouTube

To me the first several repetitions sound pretty clean and relaxed before it breaks down, but I’m curious if you guys agree or think I should try a new movement

#46

It’s getting there. *(had to include for 20 characters)

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#47

Don’t get too comfortable. There’s a part two to all of this, and possibly part three.

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#48

Hehehe I never get comfortable, I’m sure I will be frustrated as hell again soon enough. The good news is that I have enough cheats and hacks to play whatever I want. But… I’d sure like crosspicking/DBX in my back pocket… As I’m sure the original poster would.

Thanks to you “code guys” and a LOT of experimentation, trial and error I can really identify that “feeling” of string hopping so I have been able to put an end to needlessly practicing something that doesn’t work. I’m a hard worker, so I am super guilty of that.

I have found that sometimes it’s really hard to see just exactly what “something else” looks and feels like, especially when you have some stuff that’s successful. I’ll leave a video for reference, lol I can’t even escape! hahaha Not trying to self promote, but I think it is possible to come up with cool stuff that’s still a bit shreddy even if you have to go about it a bit differently (Hybrid pick, legato, taps, rearranging notes etc) Not the best, and not a display of mastery, but I think it gets the job done.

So I think sometimes a break is in order! I also found that even though I just want to get it done, learning stuff doesn’t always happen on “my” schedule… And often times I think there’s this mentality that if we learn a certain guitarist’s notes, then somehow we are magically imbued with their ability. Not so…

So here’s my situation, and maybe it will help out… it seems like a wrist rotation works best for me to do DBX. I’ve tried 'em all, but that seems to be the most natural. However, it was brought to my attention that the upstrokes seem to be hiccuping, and that coupled with not making any headway tempo-wise (clean tempo that is) I took a DBX hiatus. Thinking about it now, exaggerating that upstroke a bit, and making a mental effort to do it made things work just a bit better. Then I got to thinking about the pick depth… (I know, I know - it shouldn’t make a difference if i am doing it right BUT I want to set up for success so I will take any advantage I can get in regards to clearing the strings.) So now I am kind of working on, umm just glancing the string (feathering?) and keeping the motion a U as opposed to a V. V = pain, U = no problem. Now as far as tempo goes, I think I might be a dufus. I have literally never used wrist rotation EVER with any success, and I think that even though it is likely a compound motion, it just feels alien, and therefore is quite a bit slower - on a single string as a tremolo even. So… first order of business is to make sure that my “tremolo” is efficient and can be played at a quick clip (I will shoot for 16ths at 150 for today and see how that goes… (lol If I can just get bast 140 I will be happy!) Update: Tremolo pick to 140 successful, barrechord “roll” type thing, 16ths at 116. Seems to be the “edge”

To the original poster, you got this man - I think you are much closer than I am! (Sounds great dude!)

#49

Unfortunately I haven’t been able to reproduce those first repetitions today. How fast are you wanting me to post the etude? It’s not something I can play cleanly at a moderate speed

#50

The March 26 attempt looks great to me! I would keep doing this but not limit yourself to these 1nps roll patterns. Variety is always recommended :slight_smile: Try combinations of different numbers of notes per string (some string may have 3, some 2, some 1, etc.).

Only detail I noticed is that — I think — in some reps you strike a note on the same string twice instead of moving to the next string. Try to pay attention and see if I’m correct, so you can tell by ear if/when that happens and correct by feel.

Overall this sounds great!

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#51

I want to know both what speed you can do it cleanly, and what speed it falls apart at. Viewing it falling apart may be helpful. There’s a goal in mind though, as I hinted at with @Scottulus, so it’s coming in steps.

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#52

He does. He does it in all the videos to a greater or lesser extent.

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#53

Thanks Tommo! Is triplets around 185-190 fast enough to rule out stringhopping or inefficient technique? I def hit a hard limit trying to play something tumeni at speed

#54

It’s not likely string hopping. You don’t exhibit the tell tale signs of it. It’s likely more that you are relying on too much wrist translation instead of allowing more rotation in to provide an arched pendulum like escape. You are also double picking strings you don’t intend to which also suggests you aren’t tracking the strings enough, meaning you may be too positional as well.

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#55

I agree with this. I’ll have the etude video up tomorrow or tonight. I’ve been trying to get more rotation in there but my wrist movements always feel the most natural since my deviation movement is pretty fast. Triplets with DWPS up to 240 bpm feel very effortles.

#56

Yep, string tracking is the first thing I’d look at if strings are getting double picked

Depends. If you’re tiring out, it could still be possible. If you can do the movement for an extended period of time, you’re probably not string hopping.

Troy is in the 190’s here and he says he is still string hopping, camera footage confirms.

@ParkerLicks for some rotation, if you take a look at about 15:00 in the above video there is some footage of Rusty Cooley doing a rotational version of this.

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#57

Your not far off, so it wouldn’t be a wild adjustment.

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#58

I think Troy commented on another thread correcting that saying it wasn’t string hopping but he was doing the basic movement but just not flat enough. I’ll see if I can find the post again, I came across it when scouring the forum. That being said, when I try and intentionally make myself string hop I cap out at like triplets at 130-140.

#59

Ah ok, that would be cool clarification. I’d suspect there are ‘degrees’ to this. Like:

Can’t go faster than 16ths @ 120 → String hopping
Can go faster than 16ths @ 120 BUT can’t go faster than 130 → bad string tracking OR inconsistent motion on certain strings etc.

After all there is no silver bullet for this it seems. Also I watched your March 26 clip and agree you’re on the right track with that. It looks effortless compared to your other stuff. A motion like that is definitely worth keeping and refining.

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#60

String hoping has a very visual appearance with very pronounced wrist extensions like one of those bird pecking toys. What I see is the opposite of string hopping in that it’s slightly too flat. It’s part of the reason I designed that lick and the next one that will follow.

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#61

Hi Fossegrim, here’s me playing the etude I think around 16ths at 130. Rn this is the sort of limit at where I can semi accurately play the etude. March 29, 2022 - YouTube

I feel like the past several days whatever I did in the march 26tn video is starting to get more consistent with the feeling the wrist extension on the downstrokes being more in command and I’ve been trying to add in more elbow movement for string tracking.

#62

Okay. I see what’s happening, it’s generally pretty much what we discussed before but there are a few things I will add that may help facilitate this. I’m going to post a video reply maybe to see if that helps out a little more than just listing things. I’ll also post part two of this little exercise later tonight.

But one thing I may want to get you used to, is the idea that perhaps you may need to utilize different forms for different things, and it may seem awkward at first.

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#63

Totally interested in this, I’m at roughly the same state as Parkerlicks at your etude (I crash and burn at about 110 though) I am curious though, what do you mean by different forms for different things?

#64

It was somewhat purposely vague, but essentially a couple of things I saw in @ParkerLicks might make trying to get a subtle rotation a bit more awkward for some vs others. A lot of it is really preference but some of it can just be minor adjustments that may help get the motion going a little easier.

The first thing I noticed was pick grip. He is holding the pick more in between the first and second knuckle like this:

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This in it of itself is a preference, but for some this might force the hand closer to the strings, making some of the more subtle rotation harder to do, or make it harder to escape the plane on both downstrokes and upstrokes. It also may be why some feel the need to apply more wrist extension to escape the plane of the strings when trying to do playing that requires some form of DBX. Holding the pick a little further down, like below may give a bit more freedom of movement, but again it’s a player by player basis:
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The next thing is to maybe try exaggerating the motion a bit, and at a slower speed to ingrain both it, and string tracking. Below is a video of the first bits of the pattern being played more slowly so you can see the required movements clearer. I’m exaggerating the rotation aspect a little so you can see it. It’s apparent, but not so much that you see a vertical hopping motion. but when it’s sped up, a lot of these visual queues go away, and it looks flatter.

Here is is at roughly the speed that @ParkerLicks attempted. You can see some of the visual queues go away and it looks flatter, but it’s still there:

Below is the second lick that will help with the tracking and making sure you get the motion right. You can kind of see where I’m going with this, and you can apply this to what ever chords or progressions you want. This is just a repeating three chord pattern, the chords them selves are unimportant:

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