Need help with tremolo/picking on one string

Technique Critique
#1

I switched back to plectrum guitar in December 2022, and while since then I have seen definite improvements in my picking technique, my tremolo and by extension other fast picking attempts for anything longer than say around at most 8 seconds fall apart. Also it feels kind of effortful, so I think I have more tension than necessary. When I say ‘fast’ I mean around 175 BPM or more; doing tremolo at around 160BPM isn’t difficult for me. It’s not a string-hopping issue (or at least I think not) so does anyone have any suggestions as to how to approach this? Is it just a case of experimenting with different forms/postures, searching for one that is easy? BTW I did the tapping tests some time ago and they were all over 200BPM. I can do that in short bursts on the guitar - but I guess maybe I shouldn’t expect to be able to do it consistently and smoothly for longer periods of time at this stage, perhaps. Anyway, any tips or suggestions on how to approach this and criticisms of my video are welcome. :slightly_smiling_face:

#2

Here you don’t look tense at all. I could be wrong, but would you say the elbow is driving the motion and the wrist joint is so relaxed that it just “flops”? Either way, I think you could benefit by firming that grip up some. When the pick meets the strings it’s getting knocked all over the place and I’d think this could cause sync issues since the pick is never where you’re hoping it will be, at the exact instant. You want the pick to cut through the string as this will help ensure the pick stroke itself is straight, which is the most efficient path. A little flop in the grip is ok, but this is just really loose looking to me.

Which motions were these? Did you score this on all of them? I guess what I’m getting at is that if your test results are different from your guitar playing results, first order of business is to make sure you’re doing the same thing on guitar as you are on the tests.

It’s all great progress though! Well done. Good speed gains. I think some of those above considerations can help you get to the next level.

2 Likes
#3

Firstly, thanks for the reply! I appreciate it.

Yes, I noticed this when I slowed down the video, the pick slant seems all over the place. I think I use a blend of elbow and wrist motion. I will try to firm up my grip of the pick. I may not look tense but I think I felt it… maybe over-practising haha.

Yeah from what I recall it was the Al Di Meola and Eddie Van Halen ones. It’s strange, I can do fast wrist motion away from the guitar but it does tend to morph into something more elbow-based at the guitar. Not that that is an issue as such. I should probably go back to the relevant parts of the Pickslanting Primer. An experiment more etc…

Thanks.

#4

Yeah I have problems disengaging elbow when I’m attempting a fast wrist DSX too. I think it’s common though. Players much better than me, like Andy Wood, or @tommo are wrist players that have elbow engage at their top speeds. I don’t view it as a problem, if you’re ok with a motion that’s DSX.

I think possibly a difference in those cases is that maybe the wrist is still driving the motion and the elbow just comes along for the ride since faster speeds are going to require a little more tension that slower speeds (not necessarily the “bad” type of tension). If you contrast this with a more intentional elbow technique like Vinnie Moore or the awesome @Bill_hall, I think the difference is that you’ll see the wrist more “locked”, and in those cases the elbow definitely drives the motion. You’re kinda living in both worlds with the floppy wrist. Maybe practicing a more intentional elbow with the wrist more fixed could help, at least it would give you a different sensation. Then you can decide if you want to go more pure wrist by avoiding that feeling, or just going all in with elbow. You’ve got options!

2 Likes
#5

You might want to try slowing down considerably, just as a test, and try picking by only moving your hand, to see if you can build a mental connection to what that feels like. Right now this really looks like elbow, just not the efficient kind of elbow (too much chaos with the hand flopping around). You could also try tightening up a bit at the wrist so that you can attempt more of a pure elbow motion, as an alternative. I’m sure the elbow would be faster right away, though whether or not you want to pursue that is up to you.

1 Like
#6

Thanks for the reply, Riffdiculous. I know what picking only with the wrist feels like. I guess you could say my got-to motion is a double-escape one that is probably string-hoppy but works for playing mid-tempo eighth-note lines -

Autumn Leaves - YouTube

Anyway, I am able to get away from string-hopping and can pick ‘from the wrist’ for sixteenth-notes 120-160 BPM, but faster than that and, I think, the elbow gets involved. I’m not sure about picking only using the elbow with the wrist locked-in, but I’ll give it a go.

#7

agree with this, @James_W try locking your wrist with the same motion!

#8

Here’s some footage where it certainly feels and looks more pure wrist motion:

Now, should I spend my time trying to develop this, or should I start dabbling in a mostly new motion of elbow with locked wrist? Or both? …

#9

To me that one still has visible motion from the elbow. Also it’s possibly rotating a little making a “rainbow” type of shape with the trajectory. I think elbow alone with the locked wrist is worth a shot only because it’s “different”. It doesn’t mean you’ll have to do that forever, but it might clue you in on the type of smoothness that’s common to all the efficient motions. If you want to be more of a wrist player, you could try implementing that same feeling of cutting through the string but with pure wrist. Pure wrist is hard, I think. It requires a lot of coordination to move just the wrist without the forearm muscles tensing, which is why it often results in the elbow joint getting recruited. It’s like our body sort of brute forcing speed.

EDIT: Also, have you seen any of the updates in the Primer on “RDT” wrist motion? That’s also different than what you’re doing, so giving that a go could be interesting.

#10

Well, ok if you think this still has a visible motion from the elbow. Looks like the wrist is moving more than the elbow. I mean, when I did the tapping tests I didn’t keep my forearm or elbow totally stationary. Seems like ‘pure’ wrist is a bit of a chimera, for some people - like me at any rate. So yeah, it’s hard (I also am baffled by the people who have fast finger motion…). But I will adopt a ‘can do’ attitude. I will start dabbling with elbow + locked wrist. Yeah I have watched the RDT videos in the Primer, probably should watch them again…

#11

Right, it’s a little idealistic to only have the wrist moving, ever. I just think in that example there’s a good bit more elbow than what we see in people considered “wrist” players like Al Di Meola or Andy Wood (at their below-max tempos).

Maybe like you said, try an all-in elbow approach and see how that looks. The downside with elbow is the excess tension. But the players who are best at it report it doesn’t feel tense.