New here - Need check of current situation before I dive into CTC

Technique Critique
#1

Hey lads!

Welcome to my combination Introduction/Technique Critique type post.

I’ve decided it’s about time to dedicate some effort to fixing up my alternate picking. I’ve long been aware of (and curious about) CTC, and I’m finally able to join in and see personally what’s what.

I wanted a quick check of where I’m at right now, so I had a mate of mine come over and film some of my current playing.

WARNING: Uncoordinated Flailing Below

To start, have some unmetered single string trem picking, with some string changes thrown in. This is with my most comfortable pick, but sadly it turned out to be nearly invisible, so I switched to another for the other two vids

Now some unmetered single string trem picking with a new and uncomfortable pick. It’s yellow, a lot stiffer and sharper, and gets caught on the strings a lot because I’m not used to it. Some galloping on the lowest string thrown in, at about 2:50

Finally a two-string thingie where I try to do the following type of lick, with strict alternate picking (spoiler: it doesn’t work):

A |------1------1------1–
E |-0-0—0-0—0-0----0-0 etc

It seems to me I’m doing a Downstroke Escape type thing, with side-to-side wrist deviation and slight forearm rotation thrown in? I’ve very little idea of what’s happening with the two-string switching video, especially since I seem to be switching patterns and picking directions without much rhyme or reason.

In general, this type of lick feels awkward and unnatural (especially if I skip a string and go E->D rather than E->A) unless I economy pick it, whereas UWPS (escaped downstroke) trem picking feels a lot smoother, if currently vastly uncontrolled.

Current plans: Checking out the Pickslanting primer, and running… say, about 2 weeks of single string stuff, then moving to two string licks. Maybe swing around the Crosspicking videos and hunt for UWPS material.

Goals: Ultimately I’d like to get better at Crosspicking, or TWPS, because when I’m noodling I really enjoy Pursuit of Vikings-ish type of licks, with a lot of pedalling on the open lowest string and some skipping thrown in:

B |------------------------------
F#|-----------------------------
D |-----------------------------
A |-----------------------9----
E |-7-------9-10—7---------
B |—0-0-0------0—0---0–

But I don’t mind keeping UWPS (escaped downstrokes) for scalar playing and general shreddery, and I guess it would be best to stick to whatever feels smooth, at least to start with?

Thanks!

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#2

Welcome aboard!

for whats its worth, that lick is extremely difficult for pure alt picking because basically its a triplet type lick first time thru the string change is inside picking, next time thru its outside picking etc. very difficult IMO

plus of course anytime you have only one note on a string its pretty difficult

even adding one more note makes it much simpler. for example this 16th note lick

D------------5–7--5------
A–5--7–8-----------8–7 etc

the lick u showed is really more a candidate for economy picking:

A |------1------1------1–
E |-0-0—0-0—0-0----0-0 etc

u-d-d-u-d-d etc

so dont feel bad if you struggled with it lol. Most people would struggle alt picking that

2 Likes
#3

Thanks man!

Yeah it’s pretty awkward - I wanted to film something that’s difficult and clumsy for me, so I’d at least have an idea of how I’m playing it now.

It would be easier to economy, but I’d like to eventually get it going with alternate, both for the more percussive sound and for skipping one or more strings.

So uh… anyone have any thoughts on the first two videos? Is my self-assessment of my playing correct? Should I change anything about my goals? I’ll have time to start going through the CTC material on Saturday, so if I should make any changes to my plans let me know :slight_smile:

Sorry to be pushy, I’m just a bit overexcited I guess.

Thanks!

1 Like
#4

Great clips!

This is totally correct - nice work. And yes the forearm component is very slight - it’s mostly wrist.

Technically, a downstroke escape player can only really switch strings using… downstrokes, because otherwise you would hit something. But I think you can see here that’s not always what’s happening. If you watch closely, there are lots of moments where you have to go from an upstroke on a lower string to a downstroke on a higher one, and what your hand actually does is shrink the upstroke motion it never actually plays the note. Instead, you do a very small “phantom” upstroke that only moves a portion of the distance between the strings, always staying on the higher side of it. This lets you follow the downstroke on the higher string.

We have seen this before with players who are downstroke-only escape, like Rusty Cooley. Here’s an example - see if you can spot it:

Players have commented before that there must be swiping in Rusty’s technique since he appears to only do a downstroke escape motion and can’t do upstroke string changes. But there’s really very little of it. Instead, what we see is what we’re seeing in your technique. I’ve tried to do this deliberately, and I haven’t been able to. But I will once in a rare while see omething like this by accident in footage we film. It’s pretty amazing what hands will learn to do by themselves.

In terms of where you go from here, I think the simplest thing is to take the downstroke escape motion, since it’s already working, and iron it out, making the motion fluid and making the synchronization and attack sound good. Specifically, what I would try and eliminate is the forearm component if possible, since it’s not really doing anything for you as far as I can see. It may take some experimentation for you to figure out how to move the hand without moving other parts of your arm. I wouldn’t stress out over this. A little bit of experimentation here and there each time you pick up the instrument is fine.

The phantom upstroke will probably cease being a problem when you give your hands downstroke-only escape phrases to work on. The Primer has a few batches of these in the Strunz & Farah and John McLaughlin sections:


You can of course also write your own. We’ll have some more stuff up in a wider variety of styles in the coming months.

Edit: Re: the two-string example, that actually looks pretty good to me as a starting point. If you check out around 40 seconds in, you do a downstroke escape followed by an upstroke escape, and they look perfect. I see no significant arm movement, and the two different wrist motions involved are the correct ones. If you’re interested in the background on this, you can check out our lesson on wrist mechanics here:

Again, the Primer update will have much more clarity on this subject so you won’t have to go hunting around the site to find bits and pieces of the explanation. We’ll get there shortly.

Thanks for posting these and welcome aboard!

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#5

Thanks a ton for the detailed reply, Troy!

That’s pretty much what I needed - come the weekend, I’m starting with the UWPS licks from the Primer. Will report back in a month or two :slight_smile:

Btw, this might sound a bit cheesy, but thank you personally for all the work and effort you’ve put in CTC, and thank you to the entire CTC community. See y’alls around!

1 Like
#6

Does this come from “requesting an upstroke” (that is pickup-parallel)?
That was the case in my playing. That path made my wrist flexing and my forearm turning. Thinking of “sidestrokes” helped me a little bit to get rid of the forearm turning

#7

Hi, nice videos! One thing that sticks out to me, on the two-string switching, is that your fore-arm is staying in a fixed position. To reach the next string, you’re reaching with your wrist, rather than moving your hand and wrist to the next string via elbow movement. I don’t believe this is good, but hopefully Troy or someone authoritative can comment on this.

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